New York = Orwellian? (No Smoking in Parks and Coastlines)

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Rotku,

That goes for everything, not just smoking. Why plant the standard for smoking bans, but not for toothpaste bans? Or fatty-foods? Or foods high in sodium? You have to draw the line somewhere.

 

Youre varying your point here, driving a car has beneficial possibilities, fatty foods and alcohol in small quantities have beneficial qualities - smoking has no benefit, every sincle drag from a cancer stick does damage.

what when they decide then no longer want to smoke?

yes, I agree.... however, heroin is illegal.

once again coming back to my earlier statement, these things can have beneficial qualities, when enjoyed in moderation, fruit and veg can harm your body if over consumed, everything has to be used in appropreate quantities, hell, if you breath too quickly you can make yourself ill - smoking does not have any beneficial qualities.

wasnt this beaten to death in suicide threads? if person A is a doctor, and there is only one doctor in a village, should he be allowed to kill himself?

wasnt aware I was preaching, I dont need to preach, everyone knows the damage smoking does, the reams of medical evidence preach that. I want smoking illegal - globally.

 

I disagree. Smoking a single butt, eating a chocolate chip cookie, going for a walk, playing a video game or posting in on-line communities like this one. All are little things that can help us fell good in their own little ways. Sure, there is nothing physically healthy about smoking. Does it mean it still can't make someone feel good. Or put a smile on someone's face. When I am old and sitting in my chair, watching my favorite show or gossiping at the Senior Center, I hope there is a thing or two I can freely choose to do that will brighten my day or make me feel better. Even if it's only helping psychologically, maybe it will be smoking a cigar or chewing sum gum or sipping a small glass of wine. Smoking is one of those little things for many. You want to strip it form others? Making smoking illegal is as necessary as making anything you are saying can have a positive effect illegal. What possible positive effect coudl putting a big slab of butter on my toast in the morning have? None. Butter is totally unhealthy. But it tastes so damn good to many. Should we make that illegal as well?

 

See Blades' post above.

?I don't follow?

Absolutely. Any 'obligation' he may have to his community should be secondary to his own desires. If not, he is nothing more than a slave.

I imagine most doctors would choose to serve their community though, being as they generally choose to provide for the welfare of others.

Sounds like preaching. Seriously, you're trying to tell me and everybody else what we can and cannot do as regards our own fate. Why do you get to decide? Why is it any of your business?

I assume the context here is the US (see OP and thread title) ... in the US, the government is not going to subsidize the doctor's fee if you choose to kill yourself by smoking, nor should they.

 

Now youve taken the thread in another direction, freedom of choice, I argued earlier in the thread that if class A drugs are illegal so should nicotine - blades argued that its not the same, your now your only talking about freedom of choice over health and well being, I was arguing that if one mans drug is illegal so should the others - I have no desire to see heroin, crystal meth and cocaine legal, likewise, nicotine should fall into the same category.

smoking is only at first free choice, once your addicted its hard to change your mind. these companies make billions off the exploitation of people, and they dont want people to free themselves of the habit, so they make them as addictive as possible.

*(its also interesting to point out that the above mentioned illegal drugs have applied medical uses, unlike nicotine which is legal)*

 

I hear ya Sho. And I agree that its possible that the large corporations have only their swelling coffers in mind, not our best interests. But what about those who roll their own? Should it be illegal to roll your own and smoke in your home?

 

If the tobacco was totally free from 'enhancement' I wouldnt take such an issue with it after all, alot of the health issues are caused by the cocktail of chemicals added by these companies, I know a few people who smoke rolled fags of their own, and they smoke when they please

 

Other freedom-of-choice recreational drugs being unjustifiably banned is hardly reason to go further and ban more unjustifiable-to-ban recreational drugs. That would be like saying there's no reason not to give up all your rights if some of them have already been taken away.

This kind of thing is a slippery slope. It's extremely unlikely that heroin is ever going to be legalized, so recreational drug users have little choice but to 'play ball' and rigorously protect the legality of currently legal drugs while acknowledging that there's little they can do about those drugs that have already been made illegal. It doesn't mean they advocate a contradiction. That should be clear enough due to the this-but-not-that shotgun approach applied to the drug spectrum as a whole. (Alcohol good, marijuana bad, etc.)

 

If you live in a city, the same is true in the US. I live on the outskirts of a city in a townhouse community, and I share a wall with my closest neighbor. There's also a lot of people in the US that live in apartments, where it's entirely likely that you may be sharing a wall, floor, and ceiling with a neighbor.

But at least as far as businesses go, most places in the US have parking lots. Remember, comparitively fewer people use mass transit to get where they are going in the US than in Europe, and therefore just about every business needs parking not only for their employees, but for their clients. Other than a traditional "Main Street" setting, it's rare to see businesses butting up against one another, with no parking lot to be seen anywhere.

Of course I would rather stand under the roof - but even when I was a regular smoker, I would have the courtesy of smoking in areas where it was designated. Also, it's totally possible to light up while holding an umbrella - unless it's so windy that it's raining sideways.

You have way too much faith in the motivation of doctors. My brother is a doctor, and "helping others" is not on the top of his, or many of his co-worker's, list of why they became a doctor. Just about all of them will tell you that money and status ranked higher.

There is a brand of cigarettes in the US that is supposedly pure tobacco without anything else added. I think the name is "American Spirits" and it shows an American Indian on the pack. (I have no idea if the company is actually owned by American Indians or if it's just a marketing ploy, but supposedly, the only thing in the cigarettes is tobacco.)

 

Aldeth,
from Wikipedia

 

Then in Shoshino's forced servitude scenario, maybe they'd be better off dead.

I think Winston advertised something like that too - ALL TOBACCO, NO BULL or whatever. But then people say Winstons taste like sh*t.

 

I'm certainly not going to say that ALL smokers are inconsiderate jerks, because some of my best friends are smokers, and there's one smoker girl who holds a special place in my heart because this one time she <snip -- MUGalicious content!>

So not all smokers are jerks, absolutely. But a LOT of them are. The number of cigarette butts I see on public streets and in public parks just astounds me. They sure as hell don't come from non-smokers, and I can't imagine how anyone with an ounce of decency could contribute to making such a repugnant mess. I have a hard time mustering sympathy for such nonsense.