NPCs & Stats

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If I remember correctly in Old School D&D, the colored boxes, you could lower one stat down by 2 points and raise one up one point. Maybe these rules should be applied to the game. It would definite make us leary of lowering one stat to raise another.

 

@Western Paladin: IWD2 HoF is really worse if you consider the uber items e.g. Golden Heart of Charname...

@Silver Knight: exactly, and I remember too that you could only augment a stat if no other ability was below 9 otherwise you had to raise this one first. I must search for my D&D manual! -the original from the 80s

 

@Caradhras

Lowering stats makes the game somewhat more interesting. You start really appreciating a character like Korgan. I believe he could be as strong as what they gave him whereas I don't with Anomen. So Korgan is rocking everyone and Anomen is, with his new 15 or 16 STR, not. Then when you get those GoOP or Belts of STR, then it makes you think: does Anomen get it to become better or Jaheira or Mazzy? The Gauntlets of Dex are even more important as that's what I lower the most (most characters get dropped ~3 points) so now Minsc and Korgan have crud DEX and Jaheira and Valygar could really use them. It just makes those items seem as powerful as they should be. Without lowering stats (especially STR, DEX and CON), I've played games where I didn't even equip Gauntlets of Dex because, well, I had all 18 or 17 Dex in my party of 6 (PC, Imoen, Valygar, Mazzy, Jan, Jaheira). Makes those items that increase STR or DEX even more valuable.

 

Not a bad idea actually to bring some interest in these items. In most games the Bracers of DEX would go to Edwin or Keldorn (both have low DEX). Lowering the other characters' stats would bring about an interesting quandary. I don't play with Anomen (once was enough) but I'm considering lowering CON for Edwin, Imoen and Nalia + lowering DEX for Jaheira and Minsc at least back to what their stats were in BG1. I never pictured Minsc as being very agile so I might take away more points.
It will make the game more difficult which may not be a bad thing after all.

 

I think it's reasonable to lower Edwin, Imoen, and Nalia's Constitution scores, as none of them ever seemed like unusually hardy types to me. If I recall, though, Conjurers have a minimum required Constitution score, so you might want to keep that in mind.

 

Thanks Western Paladin, I had forgotten this!
Well we can always give him CON 15 instead of 16.

 

You could download the Gibberlings Three BG2 Tweak Pack! The last options on the list are to give the returning NPCs their BG1 stats (ie. Jaheira gets 14 Dex, Minsc gets 15 Dex and Con, Edwin gets 9 Strength and 9 Wisdom, and Viconia gets 15 Wisdom). That means less fooling around with ShadowKeeper. I've got these components installed myself right now. I'll also use ShadowKeeper to lower Imoen's Constitution to 13. That should be enough for her. I think Valygar and Mazzy would be fine with less Strength, ditto Haer'Dalis. Hmmm . . . this thread is giving me ideas, time to start editing!

 

About getting G3 tweak, when I try installing it, it says that dialog.tlk can't be found. I tried uninstalling the whole game, and installing the G3 tweak just after the official patch, but still it says that dialog.tlk coudn't be found - weird since it's right there. Anyone able to help me out on this, since I hate using SK everytime I start a new game (happens often) to lower ie Minsc' stats to BG1 stats?

 

I'm not sure why this would be, because it works okay for me. Did you ask yet at the G3 Tweak Packs forum?

 

I thought the minimum CON for conjurers *was* 16, so I was always fine with Edwin's 16 CON. I'd be reluctant to see Imoen's CON dropped to much (if at all - she survived all of Irenicus' experiements as well, remember), but Nalia!? Wouldn't she be more like, 12?

 

Requirements for specialists:
(BG1/BG2)

15 DEX - Transmuter
16 DEX - Illusionist (Quayle/Jan)
15 CON - Conjuror (Edwin/Edwin)
16 CON - Invoker (Dynaheir/)
15 WIS - Abjurer
16 WIS - Diviner, Necromancer (Xzar/)
16 CHA - Enchanter (Xan/)

 

Yup, so many stat increasing items that stats almost don't matter. As I found out while soloing "Reginald the Pathetic" a cleric SKed to:

S3 D3 C3 I3 W9 Ch3

Actually, not much of a problem; 2 quests after chateau irenicus (unseeing eye and the circus for the gauntlets of dex, girdle of fortitude, and ring of hum. inf.) and a short shopping trip at the copper coronet (for the bargain-priced mauler's arm) and Reginald was not nearly as pathetic:

S18 D18 C18 I3 W9 Ch18

In addition to a few potions of genius (needed to read scrolls and use wands: apparently the I3 made him illiterate!) and potions of insight. Thus, at the end, with CF and having quaffed a few potions, Reggie was:

S25 D18 C18 I7 W18 Ch18

before even casting DUMH, etc...

Without using SK, the lowest stat total you can roll is 75 (*after* all racial bonuses are put into effect). Thus, the lamest cleric I could have legally rolled might have been, say:

S14 D14 C5 I14 W14 Ch14

or perhaps:

S6 D6 C18 I18 W9 Ch18

 

Stats are too high for NPCs. There's no way Nalia could have such a high Constitution and Strength being a... what? A princess and a thief/mage girl? Come on. Guys don't have such scores. Jaheira's physical stats are very high. Imoen has insane scores. Unrealistic, I would say.

 

What everyone is forgetting is the world these characters live in. It is infused with magic, there is danger all around, and most people have to work hard to live. Stats in this world would be higher than you would think in our world. At least I could see it that way or hey maby even in this world these stats are unreal.

[ September 05, 2005, 19:36: Message edited by: Yoshimo's Heart ]

 

Imoen had this very high CON ever since BG1 (in my experience she usually has more HP than the PC) so I don't see what the experiments have to do with this stat -especially since Dynaheir died at the hands of Irenicus, IMO what made the difference was the fact that Irenicus didn't care if Dynaheir or Khalid (higher CON than both Imoen and Dynaheir) died because he didn't have a plan for them.

@Yoshimo's Heart: I believe that Bion made a point about stat rising items. That's enough magic for me.

 

Yes there is plenty of magic to go around. I just remembered an old school D&D campaign setting called Dark Sun where the setting was even more difficult to live in. It was a desert area, cruel wizard kings, and many other things that just made life much harder than in most other settings. The characters that came in the game ready to play as PCs (which are usualy crap in most D&D games) were more uber than BG2 in stats and they all had a psionic wild talent. The harshness of the setting created tougher characters.

 

Yes Dark Sun, where elves have a short lifespan and Halflings are cannibals (the planar sphere quest always makes me think of Athas) Faerun is a very nice hospitable place in comparison. Ah these good old Advanced days!