Obama Wins! - So What's Next?

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I come with questions and common sense. I have learned a few things here over the time I've been here, and try to incorporate them in my questions and comon sense.

I got the impression that your dislike is more for the current Republican party. That's fair. While they haven't done a good job, I just think that they get too much blame.

Again, I think you'll be disappointed. There's just too much beyond the scope of his power that needs to be addressed. He will probably do better than Mac would have, but I'm not expecting miracles.

That may be a weakness of the Democrats. If their support base is not as forgiving, then you see that reflected at the polls. So we could see Republicans regain the House of representatives in 2 years?

I've said it before, but he's over his head. I trust that he will do what he believes to be his best, but he will fail nobly. If I'm right, all I ask is that admission.

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While I have heard commercials for Hybrids from the big three, but what about any vehicles that can match the fuel efficiency of the cars made by foreign companies. It's the lag that is killing the Auto industry more than anything.

 

Same here....

Again, we disagree. Gas is now the lowest it has been in 3 years. It is the economy, IMO, that is killing them, not the technology. The proof is, IMO, in the data which reveals that even foreign cars are not selling well, ATM.

 

But why are the Big Three in such desperate straits as opposed to foreign automakers?

 

A big part of that is the hourly compensation that they pay. Like i posted earlier the avg hrly compensation at Gm is over $78/hr will at toyota & honda it is under $37/hr. That means their labor cost is less than HALF what the big 3 are spending.(Hmm. i wonder if that is company worldwide for toyo & honda? hmmm?)


That being said even with gas cheap again, 1) people still aren't buying new vehicles because of the numerous lay-offs & basic doom & gloom going around & 2) banks just aren't making loans like they used to.(hmm? "to" or "too"?)

 

They should begin by cutting salaries at the top, where they are the highest.

But it's funny how no one asked for salary cuts from Citi Corp, before they were given their bailout, which was way more than what the auto industry is asking for.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/afp/Car_industry_bosses_should_take_wag_11142008.html

Still the answer that it is just wages is not what it seems. Here is an advantage that Japanese makers have over American makers:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/17/news/companies/gm_fixes/index.htm?postversion=2008111703

The "two tier" salary system is going to have an impact in the years going foward. But workers average about 28.00 an hour and not the 70.00 that has been floated about the internet:

Keep in mind that these numbers don't include benefits cost.

I wonder what wages are at Citi Corp? But Citi doesn't have a union, so a lot of people don't really care.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/11/24/opinion/main4630103.shtml

 

Your right chandos i should have said hourly compensation not hourly wage. However i disagree with his stated wage of $28/hr avg as the local freightliner plant starts at $20/hr & their top wage is just over $75/hr*. The auto industry is just like the railroad industry, it seems like the only way anyone leaves their job is to die of old age!

I saw an article that said that labour cost adds about $4,000 to a car made by the big 3 while toyo & honda was around $1,900 (can't remember where i saw it. Darn me chronic deleting of internet cookies,history, etc!)

Yep the number of retiree's is a huge problem unfortunately it's one that the car companies themselves helped to create(understandibly, as 20-30 years ago, it was almost inconcievable that your company WOULD'NT provide you with health insurance when you retired). Now your lucky to get it when you are working.

Honestly, i don't see anyway for a happy ending to this as either a lot of people are going to end up with no job or a boatload are going to see their wages & benefits slashed.

* - now at the non-union parts plant in the next county from the union manufacturing plant, the wages are lower(roughly $15-$45/hr) That the big difference between union & non-union plants

Just to give you an example - the last time they had to do a temporary lay-off at the union plant, in order to lay-off 750 people they had to go back to everyone hired after 1990! People there just don't freaking retire until they drop dead!!

 

That's very true. And government employees enjoy much the same benfits. My dad is a retired cop and for the last ten years, not only has he received a full pension, but full healthcare as well.

 

I see I have been grossly misinterpreted here. I never intended to portray Bush as blameless, and I certainly do thing he should take his fair share of the blame. He's had more power over the US than any single individual for the last 8 years, but he didn't have even close to 100%, nor did the entire problem arise during those eight years. That is my point. Blaming it on Bush is utter fantasy. Blaming it on Bush and the Congresses of the past 8 years doesn't even cover it entirely. Blame, to some degree or another, needs to be laid at the feet of everyone since Carter, including Bush Sr. and Reagan and all the Republican Congresses that didn't try to do anything about it. Now, I do feel that most of the blame should be put on those in power (in the Oval Office and Congress) at least since a tiny group of senators tried to get legislation passed to stop this, pointing out in the Senate that exactly this may happen. That was in '05 I think. Everyone who did nothing from that point on wasn't just not noticing the problem, or hoping it would turn out well, they were blatantly ignoring it. As I said, that includes Bush and at least one Republican Congress, but it also includes two years or so of Democratic Congress, including the much beloved Obama. He was there for the last two years and was part of the Congress that did nothing.

Bush gets more blame than any single man, as he had more power than any single man, but Congress as a whole gets far more blame still, since they really have the vast majority of the power, and their power is specifically designed for this sort of thing. They set it up (under at least some guidance of presidents) and they should have fixed it (again, possibly under the guidance of a president, but they get no pass for the President's absense on the issue).

 

Well, Gnarff, it appears that not only are American consumers mindless, but they are "muderous" as well:

You called it, Gnarff - we are pretty mindless about our shopping it appears. I'm horrified and embarrassed that this is what we have become as consumers....

Wow! Can you say: mindless morons enough to describe this?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27955316/

 

Well, also remember that this is one incident across the entire US, and in New Yor at that. I'd hardly characterize an entire nation of shoppers by that. Still, it is disturbing.

 

What is THAT supposed to mean?

 

It was supposed to mean New York, but it looks like the k got cut off. I hate this keyboard. I don't know how far it's traveled, but NY City in particular (and the associated areas around it) have something of a reputation for being filled with heartless lowlifes that panic easily. That's not to say that they're all criminals, just that I don't think this is the first time something like this has happened up there.

 

Oh, you must mean like how some places in Virginia are filled with KKK, Confedrate flag-waving, bigots? I get you now.

 

Yes, exactly, although I think Georgia and Texas have more of those than us. Now, if you were talking about a specific city, like I was, then things may be different.

 

I didn't know you spent anytime in NYC. How long were you there? I lived there for 10 years and had no problems with "lowflies" and whatever else. We seem to have just as many lowflies here in H-Town as I encountered in NYC. But then it happened in Valley Stream, which is not NYC. So I guess you must have spent sometime in VS, or that area?

As far as the comparasions between VA and TX, I can ask my wife, since she was born and raised in Chesapeake, VA. Of course, VA is a nice Blue State these days...

 

But All it takes is one bad apple to spoil the whole bunch. And these bad apples get more headlines than the decent (read: boring) people who form the majority (I hope)...

 

Gnarff - I don't go in much for bigotry: People are people no matter where you go. I've lived a fair number of places here in the US and never noticed that much difference in the people. But I always hear this nonsense about how "those people" are different and aren't like "us." All kinds of nasty stuff happens all over the country. This is a big place, so things happen that are beyond control sometimes. It's easy for some to trivialize an incident like this one, that to my knowledge at least, is fairly rare, by saying "they" are not like the rest of us, so of course "it happens there."

Take a look at what happened at VA Tech. Are we supposed to think that something like that can only happen because VA is full of a bunch of "lowflies," who run around shooting each other? That would be the easy way out. No need for deep reflection, or to reevaluate anything; just pass the whole incident off as," well those people are like that." Just scratch one Wal-Mart employee....

 

I got to love this comment. Virginia and the city area of New York City roughly have the same population, and New York City metropolitan area is well over three times bigger in terms of population than Virginia. That taken to account I think the comparison between the two was quite valid.

 

Ok, a few clarifications. First of all, as to where it happened, I thought that was counted as part of NYC or the associated area. If not, then I am entirely off and ask forgiveness and enlightenment. My knowledge of the NYC geography is poor at best. As for my perception of activities, I have never been there myself, but everyone I've heard stories of it from included some form of horror story or another. On top of that, I've seen far, far more negative news coming out of NYC than just about any other single city. Now that may not be a legitimate perception, people may just like to pick on NYC because it's big and in the public eye, but it's my perception. Lasty, the issue isn't population or the nature of humanity (though the latter certainly plays a part) but rather society, and that is heavily influenced by geography, meaning that NYC has much closer to a singular society (I'm not saying it actually does have) than the State of Virginia, simply because everyone there is closer together. They're forced to interact more. I'm not saying NYC has a particularly bad society, as all societies have their strengths and weaknesses, just that NYC seems to be more oriented towards a careless disregard for human life.

 

All of us are in need of some of that, NOG.

But VS is in Nassau County, on Long Island, which is roughly an hour from Manhattan, NYC. The next county heading west is Queens, which is part of NYC.