Obituary: Rev Jerry Falwell...

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Direct from the Westboro Baptist Church's own website.. their publicity flier re. protesting at Falwell's funeral

 

What utter, baffling nonsense.

 

@DR:
Start here, and keep paging forward. Relax, there's only 5 or 6 pages.

TGS, you're likely to enjoy these comics if you're willing to accept that the author has a different viewpoint than you - then again, this shouldn't be a stretch for your Conservative principles.

 

Well, my support of Snook was somewhat short-lived.

The Saddam Hussein analogy I was originally going to make was along the lines of "if we can't be happy about Falwell's death, then I guess we can't be happy about Hussein's". Then I realized how ridiculous that sounded, and TGS obviously knew exactly why given his response.

However, that doesn't mean I think Falwell had anything valuable to say well he was alive.

Actually, in my experience, it's generally been the other way around.

 

I didn't pay any attention to him when he was alive and I'm certainly not going to give him much thought now.

I tend to find there are extremists on both sides of the aisle (and in the shadows). I think it is the extremists that primarily engage in the shouting matches and act on the belief that their opinion is the right opinion (the rest of us are obviously fools).

I have come to the opinion that, once you filter out the rhetoric from the extremes, the two sides have basically the same goals in mind but wish to achieve those goals with slightly different methods. IMO most of those methods are just fine, but I prefer the ones that cause me the least discomfort or give me the greatest benefit.

Extremists often harp on the differences and create a rift which greatly hinders the political process. I've never understood the need for such behavior.

 

Hmmm... I don't think that there are too many people who are actually glad that he's dead. Actually, I take that back - most of his followers *are* probably happy, as all of them believe he has now gone to heavan to eternal rewards - who wouldn't be happy about that.

On a personal note, I am neither happy nor sad that he has died. I typically ignored the man in life, and so the fact that he is now dead means I don't have to ignore him any more. To me, it's just like if someone I only knew in passing that I had no personal connection to died - I'd feel the same way.

 

T2B:

"I tend to find there are extremists on both sides of the aisle (and in the shadows). I think it is the extremists that primarily engage in the shouting matches and act on the belief that their opinion is the right opinion (the rest of us are obviously fools)."

Yeah, I'll agree on that. I'm very liberal, but I've been known to reach an understanding (ie agree to disagree) with individuals whose opinions range from the right to the left of my own.

"I have come to the opinion that, once you filter out the rhetoric from the extremes, the two sides have basically the same goals in mind but wish to achieve those goals with slightly different methods."

Here, I honestly can't understand what leads you to that conclusion. What I would have said is that the two sides' opinions differ because they build from very different premises regarding what they feel reality is or ought to be, but their way of developing the argument can have more in common - the respectable apologists for both sides tend to be both logical and reasonable, whereas each side's extremists run around hurling abuse. I wouldn't have said their goals coincide often, beyond the fact that we are (almost) universally in accordance regarding the idea that Blowing The World Up Is A Bad Idea.

 

No, I tend to agree with what T2B is saying. I too believe that conservatives and liberals do, at the end of the day, have the same interests at heart. We all want to be safe, we all want to take care of our families, we all want fairness, we all want justice, we all want to be able to trust our government, we all want to have our ideas heard feel like we contribute to our community and society. But the differences of opinion on how to achieve these goals give way to cultural divisions, which result in chosen sides and the need to be "right," which inevitably lead to demonizing the other side as the enemy and constantly upping the rhetorical ante. This is how an otherwise "good" person can feel justified in sporting a home-made "GOD HATES FAGS!" poster.

These are ideas we can all agree on. It's the differences between how we reach those ends that get in the way. And it's the extremists - like Falwell - who make the differences the priority and not the common ground, who set the stage for all the problems and conflicts we have, in any society.

The same is demonstrably true of religion. Every religion, when broken down to basics, have similar premises: don't do harm to others, honor your parents, provide for your family, be honest and just, and show devotion to your faith. It's too bad these basic ideas are lost to people like Falwell and the millions who followed his marching orders.

 

Jerry Falwell wasn't on my radar screen, so his death doesn't mean anything to me. However, what I have noticed is that when the sacred cows of the left are questioned the questioner is inevitably branded a racist or hate monger or whatever thereby killing any chance at a rational discussion about the subject, whatever it may be. Such epithets replace rational debate with emotion thereby changing the tenor of the debate. That is a standard tactic used by the left when all other arguments fail. Just because someone is against, say, illegal immigration doesn't make him a racist. The left knows this but also knows that the emotion generated by the word "racist" will overshadow any of the arguments previously made by their opponent. Such a tactic also serves to ultimately make discussion of the topic taboo; many people are cowed into not expressing their views. Of course conservatives have their own despicable tactics (smearing, etc.).

 

I'm not glad he's dead, but I can't honestly say I feel sad either. He was not a pleasant man, and the number of racial, homophobic and fundamental comments he's made over the years is incredible. And I won't talk about the severity of most said comments.

 

@ Dinsdale:

The shoe fits the other foot just fine, too.


Now, the one thing that surprises me about your post, however, is the fact that it is in a thread about Jerry Falwell. Falwell really is a hate monger and a bigot.

 

I guess I was responding more to TGS's post and the responses it got. I never really paid that much attention to what Falwell said since I don't care for televangelists. However, it seems to me that much of what makes him so despised is that he took potshots at some of the left's sacred cows. Maybe his soul really was as black as many are saying. I don't know.

Yes, it does indeed fit the other foot.

 

When someone says 'AIDS is God's punishment for tolerating homosexuality', that's not taking potshots at the left's sacred cows.

 

A lot of people said that of aids in the nineties. Falwell was not alone. There were a lot of religious people (those who viewed homosexuality as a sin) who made similar comments, regardless of political affiliation.

 

A lot of people were idiots too. With the epidemic of AIDS in Africa, they should have known better.

 

True, but it took the problem transmitting through transfusions and by inadvertant contact by emergency workers to get many to relax their harsh opinions. When children and health care workers started to contract the disease there was a shift in support for finding a cure.

For the most part, the 'moral majority' (which actually spans a wide swath throughout world politics) were against the lax sexual lifestyle and intravenous drug use which brought this to epidemic levels. I heard many individuals state that they should not have to fund research and treatment of aids because they did not support the lifestyle that caused the disease to be transmitted.

IMO, that sentiment is not idiotic, just very judgemental and callous. But that is religion at it's best -- and Falwell was not alone there.

 

That he said those things in the nineties, when less was known about AIDS, means he was a reactionary. That he still said those things every day up until death means he was a first-rate @sshole, plain and simple.

 

What I disliked was this 'Lord's Wrath' perspective that was bare any compassion for identified sinners. Falwell and his ilk blame the folks who are between a rock and hard place anyway for their misery: You got AIDS? Well, probably you deserve it. Either you're a homo (inevitably, by choice*), or have been promiscuous.

Disgusting in my view, and senseless in that it doesn't contribute anything to solve the problem involved with AIDS. Falwell's answer: Go, pray, be a Christian (of my particular brand, else you'll be unsaved) and the Lord will make AIDS go away. If not, that's just because there is still too much sin in the world, so pray some more! And don't forget to donate btw.

*Because to uphold that homosexuality is sin, it has to be by choice - if it were a condition, homosexuals wouldn't be culpable. The whole argument that homosexuality is sunful rests on that premise.

 

Sure. But that Falwell wasn't alone in being a prick (obviously, given his legions of followers) doesn't mean his prickiness isn't worthy of comment.

 

If you want anti-religion poster children, Falwell doesn't even come close the entire Westboro Baptist Church membership.