Oh my heck, I'm from Utah!

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@Tal: I think now you're getting the Mormons confused with the Amish. I don't know much about the LDS chruch, but I've never heard of any such stricture against the conveniences of modern society.

The Amish, however, don't use electricity, telephone, powered engines, etc. Everything is done by people (or animal power). Have you ever seen the Harrison Ford movie, "Witness?" Most of it takes place in an Amish community.

Where there are large Amish communities (south-central Pennsylvania and parts of Ohio and Indiana here in the states) there are always traffic problems caused by their horse-buggies. A sect called the Mennonites has a similar religion but is more "worldly" and has more interaction outside of their own communities.

Is this what you were thinking of?

 

Also, the Amish make much better baked goods than any other Mormon I've ever met.

Interestingly, my parents bought a china cabinate from an Amish group. It came with interior lighting that would brighten or dim as you touched one of the hinges. Not that low-tech to me! (I think it was delivered UPS too ... not by Amish Buggy Cartage International)

I had a couple nice Mormon "elders" (just over 18 if that) stop by the house on Saturday, wanting to convert me. Talk about walking into a lions den! I doubt they'll be back.

 

We've got a friend who responds to proselytizers this way:
Them: Good day, sir. Have you ever read the Bible?
Friend: Why yes, cover to cover, several times.
Them: That's wonderful. But have you ever read the Book of Mormon?
Friend: Oh yes, I've read that, too. Fascinating stuff. But tell me, have YOU ever read the Quran?
Them: Uh, well, no...
Friend: Then come back when you have. Good day!

 

I don't know...Having a bunch o' wives sounds pretty good!

I live about 45 minutes away from Amish country, and I've seen "Witness" like 10 times! The Amish seem like pretty nice folks too! And they can COOK! Just watch out for their buggies on the main road!!

 

@ Tal

Rallymama and Mat are correct. Mormons, yes even the Utah mormons, are not...NOT...the Amish. Sorry, but I just need to heap that onto the list of common misconceptions about Utah. The Amish, from what I've read, believe that everything they need to live the simple, pious life god wants them to will be provided for them by God through the land, and that anything else is just a distraction. Someone may know more on the subject, but that's my understanding.

Technology is very much allowed. Utah is where iOmega and several other tech companies are based. In fact, computer sales have boomed in Utah in the last decade, in large part because geneology is a very big thing there. Tracing one's ancestery back to the roots of the church is a very big deal, and apparantly geneology is much easier to do on a computer. In fact, if you were to ask 10 Utah mormons why they bought their computer, I guarantee at least 3 of them would list that as a main reason.

I think people confuse the "Word of Wisdom" with being Amish, but if you've lived in Utah you could probably argue they don't seem to stray much from one another. The word of wisdom is basically a recipe for the healthy, happy life according to the church. No cursing, no drinking, no rated 'R' movies, no gambling, no stimulants . This is considered less a "good idea" than it is "god's word." Why is this different from any other church? Because this actually will be publicly enforced. I remember stubbing my toe once in a supermarket, and had the audacity to express my pain by letting out an "Ow, sh*t!" Not only was I glared at by about a dozen people as if I'd just drop-kicked a puppy, but I actually got chewed out by a woman who worked there as if she were my mother. I was twenty at the time.

So while the cultural is very puritanical in many ways, we aren't the Amish. To wit, at least the Amish will leave you alone if you don't share their beliefs. The mormon church is the fastest growing religion on earth, due mainly to the fact that they send armies of missionaries into the world to convert the unwashed masses. Also, due to the 10% tithing "requirement," it's become on of the richest churches in the world, too. Look out Vatican.

To give you an idea of how deep the meethooks of the Morman church are imbedded in the culture of Utah, 2 of the 3 major TV network affiliates are owned by the mormon church. NBC and CBS. That means no Saturday Night Live (until like 2 years ago), and they tried to ban Seinfeld, though NBC wouldn't let them. And on the news at night? If there is a story envolving the church, it will run first. Before Yassir Arafat getting frisky, before the bombing of the USS cole, before anything important, you will see "Morman Missionary in Kenya shot twice in a car jacking." The new big thing I saw there when I went back about a month ago was a new kind of video store. They rent out movies that have been 'edited.' They take popular movies and edit out any sex, violence, or bad language and repackage them. How they get around copyright law is by charging a monthly base fee for the 'privelage' of being in the 'video club.' Since there is no charge for each individual movie, and they're just 'borrowing' the movies, it doesn't violate US copyright laws. This is how brainwashed people are. People can't accept the ideas that they have minds of their own, and that if they hear or see anything bad that it won't infect them somehow. I'm sure Kitrax has seen them too.

I said it before, and I'll say it again: I wish I were making this up.

 

Ahm, yes. So I rephrase: Considering coffee and black tea as something to stay abstinent from out of religious conviction/reasoning sounds a bit extreme to me. No Mormon has commented on that issue yet !

A Mormon tried 2 years ago to become city council. His comments concerning abstinence broke his neck (political wise). But his still a member of the city parliament. Now, those religious convictions about abstinence surely have a major impact on a lot of political issues and daily life (morning ? coffee ?).

It's of course no surprise to me, that the cooking from Amischi lüüt is great

Oh, OH, concerning those edited movies. I read in a paper that Hollywood-directors are sueing them. They say it's a rape of free speech (including artist-freedom) to edit a movie. I think the same. And it's a kind of fraud. If I want to watch a movie and it's edited it's not the same move. Stephen Spielberg is leading the suit, afaik, because of Schindler's list and saving private ryan. He tries to make an historic account and those people just change the movie.

[ April 30, 2003, 17:39: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

I wouldn't want to live in Utah either! Mormons from other places make jokes about "Utah Mormons". As for the edited movies, while i agree that there is a copyright issue there, please note that not even in Utah is there a law requiring all movies to be edited before sale. In other words, the people who own the store have found a market for a particular product, and are taking advantage of that market. IMHO, this is not any different than when a television station edits a film either for content or length. people who want to buy the unedited version of "Saving Private Ryan" are more than free to do so (I have a copy myself, totally unedited) but if they want an edited copy but don't have the know-how to edit it themselves, well, then they can get an edited copy.

I understand, though, that if the editors are making any extra profit for their editing, there is a legal issue there that needs to be resolved.

Now, for abstinance. Alcohol has been banned in many places by all sorts of groups other than Mormons, and in fact every jurisdiction has regulations about the hours and locations that liquor may be consumed. In a place where Mormon's are plentiful, it only stands to reason that the rules there would be stricter than the average. As for Tea and Coffee, well, that is a choice that faithful members of the church make. I find the earlier story about how a man couldn't get on city council because he abstains from certain things highly distasteful -- how would we respond if the primary reason a Jew didn't get political office was that he abstains from pork? I mean, if he were campaigning to ban pork (or tea and coffee) that's one thing, but just because of what he doesn't eat or drink? Give me a break. Is it a violation of some law to NOT have a drink of coffee in the morning? There's plebty of Mormon politicians who do just fine, and their coffee drinking habits have ZERO impact on their ability to represent their constituants.

And despite what even some Mormons will tell you, caffeine is not the issue -- if it were, then chocolate would be verboten, right? And it's not. The bottom line is that faithful Mormons believe that God has told them not to partake, and he has promised certain blessings to those who obey that commandment. End of story.

As I mentioned a few months ago, just because Mormons and Amish have an "m" sound in the beginnig of their names does not mean they have any relation beyond both being Christian denominations! Believe me, Mormons like technology just as much as Catholics, Muslims, Atheists, etc.

Someone mentioned wards and temples. *sigh* I'll explain this too, lest any more misinformation get around. An average Mormon meeting house is known as a chapel. Regular services are held there on Sunday, and other activities are also often held there. A gymnasium is usually included so the most popular sport in Mormon culture can be played -- basketball (this does not take place on Sundays, mind you, but at youth group meetings held during the week). Other games are also played -- I mention this in case someone starts in with "they are only allowed to play basketball" silliness. All are welcome to these services. A congregation is known as a Ward. Several wards together make up the organizational unit called a stake (as in the stake of a tent). A larger meeting house is known as a Stake Center. It's just a bigger version of a chapel.

A temple is slightly different. Regular services are not held there. It is only open to members of the church in good standing. Certain sacred ordinances are performed there, none of which violate the laws of any jurisdiction -- no animals are sacrificed, nothing kinky or disgusting is done. It basically consists of a lot of talking. Temples are more rare than chapels; less than 120 Temples are presently in operation, while the number of chapels and meeting houses probably numbers in the tens of thousands (don't quote me on that one, though, I'm just extrapolating)

Another long post from Depaara. Tal's gonna IotW me if I keep it up. I don't really care what other people believe, religion wise, but I HATE the misinformation (and sometimes outright lies) that are spread about my faith.

 

Hey, Depaara - thanks for caring enough about your religion to clear up our misconceptions. It's nice to get an inside scoop on such things every now and then. Maybe I'll sound like less of an idiot the next time the topic comes up in coversation!

 

Hm, I think there was a slight misunderstanding. He didn't lose because he personally drinks no coffee (what would be weird, really), but because his comments concerning abstinence.

Now, we're a pretty liberal country. Nearly as liberal as the Netherlands (We're legalizing it soon !!!!). So, the mormon was soon out of the race because he had some "weird" over-conservative views, concerning Heroine- and Methadon-Programs. AND regulating the times when Alcohol can be sold !!!!!!!!!!. Well, some people haven't found them weird, but the most of them. And he's still in the parliament. We didn't rip off his clothes like he'd be a Dixie-Chick. (Heard Canada would start with Heroine-Programms too)

Hm, but I guess I've got the answer in another form. Yes, religious believes have huge impact on political views.

Editing of movies: Copyright. It's a copyright issue too. Movies are the intellectual properties of their makers.

??????????????

Yes, Restaurants have closing time, but thats because of the noise, not because of the Alcohol.

The only European countries I know of, which have those laws are Norway, Sweden, GB and the Republic of Ireland (Those pubs close awful early). And that's maybe the reason, why Denmark is always full with tourists from the other scandinavian countries.

And the Republic of Ireland and GB want to get rid of those regulations because their rubbish. They just used the excuse of WW1 to make those rules. Now, didn't impress the Germans, did it ?

[ April 30, 2003, 19:17: Message edited by: Yago ]

 

See, Depaara represents mormons very well. If all mormons were like him, and most are, I don't think anyone would have a problem with them. In fact, membership would be even higher than it is now. Most of the mormons I've met outside Utah are actually very cool and are decent, good people. Much more laid back and understanding than the ones I grew up with.

My problem isn't really with the mormons per se, just the Utah mormons and the culture that surrounds it. Even in Utah most mormons are very good people. But there, Mormon culture takes such a strange turn that I think really turns people off about the church when really, it's the Utah culture, and not the church, that is so odd.

 

Probably should go into another forum or thread, but since it came up here . . .

If I purchase a movie, I can watch it however I want. I can choose to fast forward the thing through a scene if I so desire, and no one would be stupid enough to call that an abrogation of the rights of free speech of the producer or director. Now, I could also choose simply to cut out the part I don't like, correct? This does not stop the producer or whoever from saying their piece, but it is my choice to not listen to parts if I so desire. Now, what if I want those parts out, but don't know how to cut and splice? Well, I could get a friend to do it for me. Still no problem legally. The problem lies if my friend makes a profit from his alteration of the film. THEN there's a copyright infringment taking place. If this store is not charging any extra to do this service, IMHO, they are commiting no copyright infringement, as long as they are not selling the edited version under the auspices of it being the full version. If a person wants to buy that version, they should have a right to.

As for liquor, every country has laws about public drunkenness, do they not? As for drug programs, well, it sounds like the politician under discussion had conservative views -- views that are not only limited to Mormons. If that were the case, and the people didn't want him, then fine, that's democracy at work, right?

[ April 30, 2003, 21:47: Message edited by: Depaara ]

 

Not to worry, Tal, we love ya anyway!

 

OK, Tal, was the presentation you saw on Mormons or on Amish? I'm dying to know! Also, who put the presentation on?

Let me give you an example of the weird lies that are spread about my faith. We have a children's song, with actions (like many children's songs around the world) and this song is entitled "Popcorn popping on the Apricot tree". The woman who wrote the song had a little girl who saw the blossoms and came in and said their were popcorn balls on the tree. With me?

A film made by anti Mormons plays this really freaky music, totally unrelated to the song in question, and has a deep voice saying something along the lines of "Mormons indoctrinating their children" and it pans in and shows a family singing this song and doing the actions -- slow motion. Portrayed in this incredibly dishonest manner, it looks like the family is doing something really weird instead of singing a song about flowers. of course, the song isn't what's being played, but music somewhere along the lines of "Jaws". I hate that level of dishonesty. Disagree about us, hate us even, but don't lie about us.

 

What was this movie? Is it a documentary or something?

 

IIRC, it was entitled "The Godmakers", though there are lots of anti-Mormon productions and books out there, so I could be mistaken.

 

Hey, I was born and raised in Califorina for most of my life...does that make me "very cool"???

Last time I checked the population of Utah consisted of only 1/3 mormons. Just on my street 6 out of the ten families are non-members. So not everyone in Utah is mormon!!!

One last thing to bring the reputation of the state down...on days that there is a North-East breeze, the air smells of death. The cause? It's the Great Salt Lake!!! There is only one inlet in to the lake, which is the Jordan River, and no outlet. So since there is no real current in the lake, a very rancid smell lingers all around the it. I once went to a Everclear concert that was held at a place called Saltair. Well, to put it lightly, I actually prefered the stench of the sweaty fat guy mashing near me than the cool, rancid smelling breeze comming in from the windows.

 

Move away. Thanks for asking - I know you don't have to.