Over 200 pupils & parents taken hostage at Russian School

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I was and is of the opinion that the entire western world is united in their will to fight and defeat extremists of this kind. There is just not a consensus on how best to do it. France tried the heavy handed kill em all tactic in Algeria and the Russians have been using it in Chechnya. It aint working. Why didnt the Chechyans do this kind of stuff ten years ago when the unrest started? One reason of course is that they have been inspired and infiltrated by those nice Saudi madmen who spread their poison wherever they can but another reason is that the children who grew up seeing the Russians slaughter and destroy their country are now adults and are completely wacko, willing to do anything for a goal which in our eyes is completely pointless.

I am in no way defending the Chechyans or muslim fanatics wherever they are but history has shown time and time again that violence begets violence. The spiral must end somewhere and I seriously doubt some raving foaming lunatic who grew up in a Koran school being taught how evil we all are is going to stop.

Neither am I saying that we shouldnt respond in any way when people do like this, they should be dealt with harshly but all out attacks on the communities and places these people come from will only further the spiral of violence and death. For instance I do not think it would be a good idea if the Russians after they storm the school and shoot all the criminals inside would start again with their mangling of the Chechnyan province.

 

@joacqin
I don't think it is possible that the cycle of violence will ever stop. Imagine how the parents of those children feel. They are going to want revenge on every Islamic extremist or any organisation that uses acts of terror to preach it's right for independence.

Indeed, the Russians contributed to these terrorists acts by invading Chechnya however when invading their objective was not to kill civilians.

These rebels have damned their own cause. How could anyone ever take their country seriously when they used acts of terror to achieve their independence?

 

They could have gotten it from Sun Tzu, "when you are fighting one of the worlds largest armies kick them in the soft spot", only they didn't read the "and run" part.
They must be pretty desperate though, or stupid, Russia will now press harder on Chechnya and the rest of the world will complain less since "that damn corner of the world is filled with only criminals who should meet bubba and etc etc", so it could even get better for Russia(yeah maybe it is all one big KGB operation, Putin is just the kind of guy for it).

What sickens me as much as these hostages, is that people so easily point the finger, "evil, madmen, filth", just ask yourself, if you were in his/hers shoes, would you do the same? These terrorists are not monsters, only mere human.

 

No one said they were monsters; random killing just doesn't appease anyone. If I were in their shoes, I would much rather target the people who are responsible of the state I'm unhappy of. Military command, soldiers, people who are important supporters to them -NOT schools, hospitals, or those who are not involved in any way. Assassinating invading forces could be called "strategic guerilla/commando warfare" whereas this matter they are demonstrating is just terrorism and does not justify any cause.

 

They have stormed the school now and it seems that casualties are comparitively low. They are leading out people now and there are many wounded. However it doesnt seem to be the complete bloodbath which was feared.

 

As far as I know the reports are still unconfirmed. Rumors of the school's main building's roof collapsing and almost all of the students are down to their underwear (for some reason).

 

Everyone is out now it seems, and yes, all the pupils are in their underwear. The present "official" death toll is five dead children and a couple of hundred injured. These are very shaky figures.

The Danish man on place says he himself have seen atleast twenty corpses with his own eyes.

 

I heard that it was worse than that, someone said somthing like, there were dead bodies in the coridor and corpses lying on top of each other in the gym...

I just wish somone would give eveyone the facts cause this is turning out like the last time, you all remember the gasing at the theatre a couple of years ago... apparently this is what happened

1153: Officials say 250 hostages wounded, including 180 children - AP
1150: At least five bodies outside school
1125: Security forces attack house where 13
rebels thought to be hiding - reports
1115: All hostages reported out of school
1030: 158 people reported hospitalised
1005: Russian troops said to be nearly in full control
0958: Special forces enter school
0930: School roof said to have collapsed
0914: 30 hostages escape
0905: Explosions and gunfire heard. Soldiers run to building

...but

"Unconfirmed reports say that at least 10 people have been killed and up to 200 wounded."

it looks a lot worse than it really is though http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/3624126.stm

 

I heard this morning on BBC that the kids were in their underwear because the school was very hot and the terrorists weren't allowing food or water to come in. Parents stripped the children to keep them a little cooler and prevent dehydration.

 

This isn't looking good.

 

Well, the russian police doesent exactly have a record of solving these kinds of situations without violence. Hostages/innocents ALWAYS die. Like in that theatre a few years ago.

 

It's much worse - it now appears that there were over 1,500 hostages in the building, a terrirost set off a bomb in the gymnasium, and collapsed the roof. The death toll is up to 150, and over 400 more have been hospitalized. Most of them are children.

 

er... where did you get "most of them are children" from?

i havent seen a single (credible) report which has claimed this, most of the children who have been hospitalised have been because of dehydration or malnutrition.

 

Rallymama, nah, the kids were forced by the terrorists to strip because the of psychological effect, little children will not run away as quick because that would seperate them from their clothes.

 

Well, the authoritys say there are between 1200 and 1500 hostages.
But the russian special forces did a charge, which took the lives of about 143 hostages, 20 terrorists, and several special forces/cops/soldiers.
But the chechnian aren't the real terrorists, it's the russians themselves, for years they take young chechnian boys and men, too geneticly wipe them all out. I think the russian should do something first about it.
I also still remember when i was chatting with a boy from Moscow on the warcraft net, at the same night of the opera incident, men, that was a real sad conversation, he kept sending me and 2 other chatters information, sooner then you would see on t.v., yup, that whas historical.

 

Just because the Russians have behaved atrociously in Chechnya nothing can excuse taking over 1000 schoolchildren as hostage.

The Russian execution of the "rescue" was horribly badly done. From what I have heard and seen the soldiers fired right into the school and gym where all the hostages were, probably killing just as many as the hostage takers managed to kill.

 

Actually, I think that the Russian SPETNAZ killed more, probably the double amount, than the terrorists did.


I can't believe that Russia voted Putin for a second period. It is clear that he cannot solve situations like these.


War on Terrorism in Russia:

World: 0
Terrorists: 2

 

I dont think the Russian people have all that much choice in who to vote for. Putin's opponents have been more or less mafia style oligarchs who robbed Russia blind after the fall of the Soviet union so they are not overly popular among the people not to mention that Putin controlls the media and have tossed some of his opponents in jail on so-so charges. The sad part is that even though his imprisonment of his opponents came at a very good time for Putin so were the charges not really false.

So the Russian people have the choice of semi-dictatorial Putin who really isnt doing anything particularly nasty to the people (except the people in Chechnya) and is in general doing a half decent job and who are very popular among the masses or a bunch of what basically amounts to robber barons. Not a nice choice.