Please tell me there are more Atheists out there...

Remove all ads!

I prefer rationalism to atheism. The question of God or any other divine entity is outside reason and plays no part in rationalism, therefore you don't have to waste your time either attacking or defending.
My views on death are; since I haven't died, as such (well, there was this one time...), I have no idea what happens - from the perspective of the deceased, of course.

@Saber:
The existence of souls is based on faith, not hard facts, therefore I cannot say whether or not souls exist.

[ October 10, 2005, 22:06: Message edited by: Lost Meme ]

 

Meme, we obviously know you aren't dead, but do you think that when we do, we just rot in the ground, or do our so-called "souls" go somewhere? Do we live on in another place?

 

I just don't believe in Vatican's church; when I was in catechism, the priest told us to give money for pour people and all that babling and one time when I asked why the Vatican has such wealth while Jesus wasn't that rich; or when the priest forced us to go church on sundays while in the Book Jesus tell us that the church is our own heart and we don't need to go to any special place for God to listen to us, etc., the only answer that I always had was a priest leading me outside the class telling me that I don't have to do such questions and gave me penitence...
Is my humble opinion that this particular church (the Vatican) is a big contradiction.
I remember a song by Genesis:
"...Won't find me practising what I'm preaching
won't find me making no sacrifice
but I can get you a pocketful of miracles
if you promise to be good, try to be nice
God will take good care of you
just do as I say, don't do as I do..."

 

Precisely! Why should the church be rich and extravagent, when what they practice tells them to be humble?
Why do you need an intermediary for you and god?

Of course, that is what Martin Luther (not MLK) said, so he created Lutheranism. There are also a bunch of other religions that are not like the church, but still, i don't like any of them.

 

I suppose I'll have to say that our view of separation of church and state are very different then. Basically I agree with you though, it's just that I think we put the point when the church adminsters the country in a different place. As I've said earlier I think that politics and religion should stay as far from each other as possible.

Hmmh... As a sidenote I wonder if anyone has written a book about how to best secure your place in the afterlife I mean with that what kind of a lifestyle one should have to cover as many religions as possible and have the greatest odds of reaching a good afterlife. That would be quite an idea for a book if no one has written about it allready.

 

I guess I could best be described as a strong agnostic. I won't go quite as far as to categorize myself an atheist, although possibly a weak atheist. Basically, I have no idea whether or not any god or gods exist, and moreover that such information is unknowable.

 

A couple of months ago, I had a bit of a spiritual moment. I realized that, upon my death, I will lose the ability to ever make another choice. But that does not mean that the choices I have made will stop effecting the universe. Every choice I have ever made has cascading repercussive effects that will propagate through the universe until the end of time! Upon making my first choice, the fact that I have existed will always be thereafter true and the universe will continue to be shaped by me long after my death!

I am graffiti that cannot be painted over and my "was here" will be visible forever.

 

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but nothing is eternal. Eventually, everyone will be forgotton (unless you do something reeeally big and important, such as taking over the world, or something). If you just live your life normally, without doing anything monumental, you will be forgotton. So, if you want to be remembered forever, I suggest you go do something really important.

 

Saber: if you are really so interested in why people continue to pray, go to church, worship God, read the Bible, follow the Ten Commandments, etc., I personally think you could do better than ask a group of mostly adolescent to late-twentyish computer gamers. Maybe you can ask a teacher, a peer, a professor, or just someone who has these same interests on what to read in order to expand your views.

I think The Brothers Karamazov is a pretty good read, or maybe something from Nietzsche (death of God and such). I would recommend Brave New World too, as odd of a choice that would be.

Although I think the most important is to keep an open mind. It's easy to seek out people and books that reinforce your own view, but I think it is more rewarding to seek own ones that challenge it, or simply to read something for the sake of exploring a new idea.

 

I agree with Oaz here. Furthermore I would say that you shouldn't ask us why we do or do not believe, you should ask yourself.

People have many different reasons to believe, or not to believe, and even though I many a time have stated both to others and myself that I am an atheist, I have found myself praying...

Which could easilly be one reason to believe. TO give a meaning to the often seemingly meaningless.

 

I've asked plenty of people, I just want to hear what the wonderful people of SP believe. I enjoy hearing what they have to say, and discussing things with them. It's interesting to find who is similar to me (at least in the spiritual aspect of life).

 

@Saber:

Alms giving is a nice way of both giving the rich guy some penance and having the poor guy fed and clothed. That's how it worked in the ancient times and middle ages. Indulgences are always connected with confession, which includes penance. Supporting a good cause materially, even financially, can be a good act as much as putting your organic work in it. As such, it can also be a penance for your sins. It can go directly to some such cause or to a charity that supports such cases. When the bad thing begins is when money buys you the way. No one in the church has the authority to absolve a sinner who doesn't regret. Every single priest in the church would have had the power to absolve Hitler of his sins a second before his death, should he have asked for it, regretted, wanted to repent. But none has the power to absolve of a sin not regretted. A priest can be deceived or even bribed but God can't. In short, there's no buying a ticket to heaven. In fact, bribery in sacred things is a mortal sin called simony. No authority in the church can absolve a person of a sin not yet committed, either.

As for crusades, do a search in this forum section. I've answered this one in a couple of threads already.

As for common knowledge, it's no evidence of anything. It's just a convenient excuse. It's a big sack where everything goes, all personal experience and all things you've heard. It appears to you the only logical way and the only way things could be or be seen, but it's not the same way for other people. In short, if you want to have anything more than rumours and dubious accusations, you need to dig deeper than what seems obvious to you. Many things seem obvious until you actually look up and check them.


@Morgoroth:

It makes sense until one realises that atheism is a faith and that even the most passive kind of agnosticism is still a certain point of view, a certain philosophy. By pushing traditional religions away, the state is no longer neutral but it finds itself on the same side with atheistic movements and secular philosophical systems which don't differ from religions that much. Separation is supposed to bring independence. If the state, however, were meant to take opposite views to those that religions take, it would still create dependence. Opposite-dependence, forced opposition or however you call it, but it would still limit the state and defeat the original purpose. The state is not supposed to be an enemy of religion.

But most religions preclude one another, so if you combine those with others, you're cooked.

Hmm? It's not a biggest killer contest. Basically, you say religion breeds genocidal despots. History teaches anti-religious despots coincidentally beat religious despots in kill count. Especially if Christianity is concerned.

For you, yes, but for others? You believe it, you think it's true, but you can't really prove it, can you? The point is, you're still taking something on faith.

Plenty of, whatnot etc. How about you give some names and numbers and real reasons of killing people?

Not like I would kill people for blasphemy, but that logic is flawed. Often a crime is not a crime in the perpetrator's eyes. Should we set him free then? Take a Nazi who has killed hundreds or thousands of "subhumans". He doesn't believe he's ever really killed a *human* being. Has he committed no murder whatsoever, by that kind of logic?

 

I'm not talking about pushing religions away in any way, I'm talking about the political and religious institutions knowing their places and staying in them. Religion has no job jumping around in politics and politicians have no job in banning faiths or restricting religious activity. Of course the perfect balance is difficult if not impossible to reach.

Yeah I know but some religions might have some sort of backdoors to salvation which would not actually require active worship of their god/higher principle/pink dragon, just following some nice principles of life which conveniently fit into another religion which requires active worship.

 

*sigh*

Chev, I will not argue with you anymore. I have argued enough, and no matter what I believe (or don't), you will try and prove me wrong.

But, just for the heck of it:

I said that it was evidence, or common knowledge, or whatever you want to call it. It being whatever you want to call evidence. So, what you said doesn't even pertain to what I said.

I said whatnot because I could not find another way of saying blasphemy or heresy.


But, in any case, Chev, I don't feel like fighting with you, I just want to hear what other Atheists, or non-relgious people have to say about their beliefs. Also, I'm fighting a losing battle because I don't have the time right now to go out and find you tons of proof to back up my statements, and I apologize for not being able to do that right now.

and @olimikrig:
I know what I believe. I just want to hear what other people believe. Its just curiousity...

 

Personally I have mixt thoughts ,i really don't belive in the institution of church , it gives people power that they should not have , I don't know for sure if there is a god , or if a religion is true , probably when I die I will know
What I think about death ? well i was one step from death a few times and the weeks after were some of the most calm periods of my life , I don't know why
On the other hand i have seen the power of faith in some man and i can say that I envy them

Well you see that parasite is carrying its mothers genes , it is the reason why she lives ,it is the reason why all creatures live and I really have no idea why

Well yeah but Christianity teaches love , forgiveness....you get the point .

 

i am an atheist, and i think mostly in facts, numbers, and such that being said i have a really bad sense of seeing others peoples emotions, and sensing my own , wich is a very big problem for me, i also dislike poetry and that sort of things

back on topic, i belive in sience not mythology.

 

Oh wow, I forgot to mention science. Although, i guess it was apparent, considering that I don't believe in relgion (or mythology as Balle calls it ). But, I love science, because not only can it be proven using experiments that we can see, hear, smell, etc, but it has always been around.

Science has been here forever, we just haven't discovered all of it yet. It was here long before the Bible, and will stay long after it is gone (which, i hope it will). Science is eternal, and can be used to explain the things that religion tried to explain.

And, I'm not arguing this point anymore, so please, Chev, don't start picking apart what I say, analyze it, and bash it.

Thank you.

 

A couple of examples for chevalier:
- The fall of Constantinople. I don't know the kill count, but the crusaders pretty much destroyed the entire city.
- Galileo Galilei, a scientist who the church accused of blasphemy and threatened him with death - he could only squirm out of it by publicly denying his life's work searching for the truth.
- The ancient Romans persecuting Christians - not a point against Christians, per se, but it was a *religious schism*, the Romans and their faith vs Christians and their faith, and it resulted in many deaths.

These things all are covered in many history books, if you bothered to look them up. You don't expect people to quote entire chapters from books on these forums, do you?

Feel free to dissect and disagree.

 

Thank you susipaisti, for backing me up (you were backing me up, weren't you?). At the time of the request/demand for examples, I did not have time to look up examples. So again, I thank you.

And I forget exactly (I never really studied Galileo): how did he die? I believe it was related to the blasphemy charges, no?

 

Ultimately, the incidents you pointed out were not caused by religion itself, but rather abuse of religious authority. Were it not for religion, they'd need some other mask to hide their greed and pride behind...