POLL: Abortion - Yeah or Ney?

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You have become like a desperate man, sinking in the quicksand and attempting to grab at anything to save himself from sinking further.

I don't know where you came up with all this nonsense but asking someone to read a few previous posts on the same thread, upon which we were arguing, does not seem a lot to ask. I thought it would be helpful if you had read my two previous posts on the Declaration. And you did not even have to go to a different thread to read them. Especially considering that I had the courtesy to actually take the time to read your rather ponderous and unexciting posts on this thread. ZZZZzzzzzzz.

More than likely some would agree and some would disagree. The point was that the Document is used by Americans to protect the right to Liberty and Equality. Since you seem to feel that women are second class citizens the equailty part would apply to your narrow type of thinking on the subject.

That you did not even know that George Washington was in the Continental Army proves that your knowledge of American history is not very good. To say that the Founders did not "face British bayonets" is not very accurate, to say the least.

 

I'll second that.

Just a couple of comments from me, and then I think I'll bow out, because I can see that we're going to start going in circles without any resolution to this.

From Grey:

As I said previously, I think of it as a potential human, or as dmc put it (although he doesn't agree), a "human being in waiting". With all due respect, I'm not going to bother repeating why I feel this way.

From chev:

As I have stated before, I disagree.

Like I said, I think I'm starting to go in circles here, so I'll take my leave now. (Imagine - having a discussion in the Alley, and not reaching a concensus. )

 

This is just not a topic that can truly be argued one way or another since "pro-life" arguments broker no further argument at all. I respect the fact that some of you feel that way, and I've had my say in previous arguments on the same topic.

I would argue though with the assertion that "we all agree that arbortion kills a human being". I do not agree. So that's minus one on that score.

No more would I consider a just fertilised egg a human being than I would consider a pile of bricks, some wooden beams and tiles to be a house.

At what point does that change? Well, when the house is built I suppose. I'll happily go along with womans choice up to the point when the there is sensible chance of survival outside the womb. I simply put more value on what is than what might be. It is not down to convenience, but pragmatism. It will happen whichever way we look at it so I think it should be allowed within certain guidelines instead of referring women to back street and underground abortions. Again.

I would never argue for abortion to be used as birth control, I do accept, however, that there are reasons why people feel that abortion for them is necessary.

 

It's impossible for me to continue this discussion in these circumstances. If anyone is willing to exchange opinions with me, I will gladly participate in another thread. Or exchange PMs.

However, I withdraw from this thread as a sign of protest against constant unfounded accusations and indiscriminate defamation.

So far, I've been accused of: dishonesty, lack of integrity, mispresentation, ignorance as to basic knowledge, mental retardation, lack of compassion to victims of crimes, condoning criminal behaviour (rape) and possibly some others that I have missed. It's too much for any man to listen to. I'm not going to defend myself.

I maintain my points and am ready to defend them, but not here. Not in this thread. Not anymore. I owe an explanation for leaving the discussion like this, but I can't stay.

As a little ending trivia on Washington, I wonder if Chandos, who is apparently the sole expert on general Washington in this thread, has ever heard that his hero reprimanded his troops for celebrating the anti-Catholic holiday of Guy Fawkes, which is quite distinct from the manner in which Chandos throws gratuitous mud at everything and everyone Catholic from the Pope to simple believers.

[ June 06, 2004, 21:18: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Right, I suppose I need to comment on some things I've seen in this thread...

These accusations are baseless and unfounded. You may dislike chevalier, but accusing him of condoning rape or not supporting the rights of the victim is libel, plain and simple. Also, it's just ridiculous to say that. I've not seen anything that can back it up in his or anyone's posts, at all.

(I don't want to post more quotes about the revolutionary war, this one was just the closest to hand...)
Well, here's something I don't quite get. Did good old Billy Yank in the Revolutionary War fight those dastardly redcoats hollering out "Life, Liberty, Equality!"? I think not. In fact, I doubt he was thinking about any of the three. All he wanted was to stop the high taxes, defend his home, his family, and so on. It's a bit silly to think he even had thought of these higher ideals at all, that sort of thing was for the fat merchants, and the generals, and so on.

Well, this isn't really accurate, Chandos. I would ask chevalier a history question before I asked the average American this question. And, by the way, I think he DID know Washington was the leader of the Continental Army... in fact, I've spoken to him in the chatroom about it before this.

It's hardly a "problem" for anyone not from the US to not know relatively obscure facts about the history of it. Do YOU know the name of the first king of Poland? Think fast, now. No? I suppose it's a "cultural problem," then.