POLL: Berserker or barbarian?

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Actually, I have done as you said. I did make a human, dual-classed beserker/cleric. Again, I started off with him using flails, and figured, I'd have enough points in hammers by the time Crom Faeyr came along, that I'd be wielding Flail of the Ages and Crom Faeyr, and I'd basically be death incarnate. I even waited until he hit level 13 as a beserker before dual-classing him.

The character did NOT live up to the expectations I had of him.

First of all, since I had to be a human, my three power stats were 19 str, 19 con and 19 dex, as opposed to 19 str, 20 con and 18 dex for the dwarf. The strength was no different. The difference between a 20 and a 19 in constitution is huge. There's no hitpoint difference (+5 either way) but you don't regenerate with a 19 constitution. The difference between an 19 and 18 in dexterity is insignificant for fighter types. Both an 18 and 19 give you a bonus to 4 in your armor class (for some reason a 19 does not give you a bonus of 5). The only bonus you get is a 19 gives you an additional +1 to hit with missile weapons. Well woo-hoo. When the hell am I going to benefit from THAT as a beserker.

But that's not why I didn't like him as much. It was the screw job I got at spellhold that killed the class. For some reason, the game is programmed that when you gain the ability to become the slayer, you lose all of your other special abilities that are not intrinsic to your class. Since I had dual classed, and the game now considered me a CLERIC (even though I had regained my old class already) and that clerics do not have the ability to go into a RAGE, I LOST THE ABILITY to rage. Total screw job. Also, since I had dual-classed into a cleric, it's not like I could earn additional rages as I leveled up. They were lost to me forever. So I essentially became a fighter that dualed to cleric instead of a beserker who dualed to cleric, with the exception that I still couldn't place more than one proficiency into missile weapons.

Had I known this, I would have played a dwarven fighter/cleric, which just brings us back to the dwarf anyway, and still no rage. So, while the character was still very powerful, my expectations were significantly higher than what I ended up getting.

 

You mean if a kensai dual-class with mage, he will also lost his "kai shot" ability after he can change to a slayer?

[ August 10, 2003, 11:09: Message edited by: Skywind ]

 

I have never dual-classed a kensai, so I can't say for sure, but I am inclined to think the answer is "yes". Like I said, I know there are a whole lot of people who have dualled a kensai, so there are probably people who can tell you for sure, but as far as I know, all special abilities of your first class on gone once you get the ability to change to the slayer at will.

 

I would prefer to play through Bg1 with a human fighter, use up all the skill tomes (man, them things are teh rox!) then import him into BG2 and class him as a Barby.

The reason for this is simple: Half Orcs + Dwarfs cant romance.

Romancing is an integral part of the role playing side of Baldurs Gate, say what you like about them, but at the end of the day, this is an RPG, not a power-gaming "ooh! My half orc fighter beat firkraag solo'd!" kill fest.

Therefore, a Human Barby would be best (cant use Elf or Half Elf for obvious reasons... 17 Con for one).

(plus a 19 Str, 19 Con, 19 Dext Human Barby would pwnz j00, lol)

 

Do you mean doing that using SK? You can't change a fighter into a barbarian using the normal game mechanics. Also, half-elves have a maximum constitution of 18, so they would be able to get up to 19 just like a human.

 

Oh

I thought, if you import a Fighter into BG2, you get a choice of all the Fighter kits, plus either Monk or Barb. Is this not the case? :s

Never really used a full class fighter before, so wouldnt know for sure

 

If you import a fighter, you are allowed to chose from any of the fighter kits. However, barbarian and monks are their own classes; they aren't fighter kits, so you couldn't do it.

 

@Aldeth
When did you dual-class, before or after Spellhold? IIRC you lose all of your special abilities (i.e. thief snares) when Irenicus drains you, but mine have always been restored at the next level-up. If you dualled after Spellhold, perhaps it ignored your old class when restoring abilities. If that's the case, chalk it up to sloppy coding.

 

You all say their immuneties are the same , but a barb is not immune to imprisonment and a berserker is not immune to level-drain (correct me if i'm wrong here).

What it all comes down to in the end is :

+4 strenght and con VS +2hit and damage

Obvioulsy the first is best, UNLESS u have crom fayer in your off hand giving you 25 strenght , which is max. But, butbutbut my friends let then say that the barb puts Belm in HIS off-hand , giving him +1 attack per round, and still almost as high strenght as the berserker(do you get it? no? let me explain).

What I bacicly mean here is : Ok the berserkers rage is better (or more usefull) if he has crom fayer in his off-hand, but then the advantage of the barb would be to have a free off-hand (Not being "forced" to use crom fayer in order to get the max out of the char) and a free off hand can give plenty of bonuses in which the barb would totally own the berserker.

 

Ugh, resuurected thread, but I'll contribute nonetheless. Even though they aren't in the descriptions,

1. Barbarians are immune to imprsionment while raging.

2. Berserkers are immune to level drain while raging.

The immunities are identical, even though they differ in the character description. The difference, as you said, is +4 str and con vs. +2 hit and damage.

On a more humorous note, after arguing the beserker with Death Rabbit a year ago, I have since turned to the barbarian side.

 

Berserkers are better in only two ways:

1) role-playing reasons (I can't imagine a barbarian being raised in a library)

2) if you want to dual class

Otherwise, I prefer the Barbarian.

 

Someone may have mentioned this (I didn't get to read them all) but berserkers can grand master, barbarians can only specialize.

 

I perfer Barbarians for a straight class character, but for dual classing the only option of the two would be that beserker

 

Well, as said, the immunities are the same while raging. The bonusses compensate since Berserker gets better thaco while Barbarian gets more damage (unless when wearing an item that raises str above 21). I also noted that someone mentioned the killing when the temp hp disappeared, I have never seen this happen. I had a berserker at 1HP while in rage and when the rage wore off he was still at 1HP and not dead. I never checked the AC thingy, but the barbarian doesn't need AC as much as berserker since he has his damage reductions (and regeneration when raging due to con bonus).

Now, one point that does make a big difference IMHO is not mentioned. Berserkers get winded after raging, Barbarians not. This means barbarians have a much easier time using their rage than the berserkers, who due to this winding, need to limit their rage to when it is really needed (mostly for the immunities). This is especially handy if you want to use the regeneration ability of the barbarian.

My conclusion is they are equivalent and so it comes down to playing style. I tend to use my chars as fire-and-forget, by just clicking attack on most enemies, and forgetting abilities until they are truly needed, so mostly Berserkers are better suited, though I actually prefer the Barbarians, but that is also RP influenced. But I mostly have not much choice, since I like to play BG2 with an imported char, and so there is no choice to play Barbarian .

 

My Berserker (protagonist) died after a rage. Funny way to have to reboot, IMHO.

 

When making a barbarian in BG II I(i) always make him a gnome wielding a 2handed sword and I always make him Chaotic Neutral and name him "Kane the Insane" (tm)(c)[stealing this name will result in slow, painfull torture and fluffing with pink pillows]

Its so cool having a little guy with a big sword going into a rage against a bigger guy

 

Half-orcs can romance Viconia if you have Baldurdash patch.

Grand mastery in BG2 is not that great compared to BG1.

If you create an half orc in BG1 with 19 strengh, with the book he will have 20, and with the Bhaal's tear 23, and with Machine of Lum 24. So I don't need to use Crom Faer, and instead I can take the flail that Joluv sells, which increase the physical resistance and give some AC bonus.

Barbarians are globally more powerful than Berserkers: they have more hit points, physical resistance, faster movement, immunity to backstab, better rage...
Their drawbacks? No Grand mastery? In BG2 it is more useful to have two stars in two weapons that five stars in one. No plate mail? In ToB you can find armors for barbarians as powerful as the plate mails.