POLL: Conscription

Remove all ads!

Where else did you assume the money came from? Out of a magical hat? In any case in New Zealand I'm sure conscription does not make sense but it's a bit different here being neighbour to Russia.

@Wirhe

Did not know about them not paying the rent. I think they obviously should do that. The financial situation is pretty much the same for those in military service too. I did loose money during the service time and I was not exactly spending tons of money during the service time either.

 

Both Guard and Reserve units have been deployed to Iraq over the past few years. Am not certain whether any are currently deployed there.

 

@Harbourboy
That does'nt matter for your tax money. Food and housing is a very small part of a countrys military budget. In Sweden the military budget is actually bigger now than when we had "real conscription". This year 5000 out of 21000 service capable do military service. (civil service is very rare since you can be classed mentally incapable by saying you don't want to do it) When we had "real conscription" about 20000-30000 did military service.
It's the material that cost money. Eg. my panzer terrain car costs about 2,5 million dollars. A tire costs about $5000. Some guys I know trained shooting missiles worth $10000 each. It's the material that costs not the soldiers. By cutting down the manpower by half you'll not get a dime for health and education.

 

Ah, but we don’t have any hardware in the New Zealand army. There’s no way we have any ‘panzer terrain cars’ and I’d be very surprised if we have any missiles.

 

Actually the New Zealand has armoured vehicles. I found the statement a bit odd and searched Wikipedia and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NZLAV

 

To make myself clear the missiles where anti-tank. Which New Zealand has. NZ uses the FGM-148 Javelin from Lockheed Martin.
The NZLAV looks about the same as the Sisu but they have different uses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XA-203
By the way I drive the XA-202 Command PASI. It's going to be in the next Battlefield game and the one in the game is modeled after mine.

 

I find it kinda silly that a simple tire can cost 5,000 bucks. Almost as silly as labeling a standard needle "first-aid needle" and multiplying the price by 100. It's a rip-off in both cases and the so-called experts swallow it whole.

 

Indeed I can agree with that. Let's see however who profits from military service? Yes the community, which you are efficently part of and therefore you profit from it too and it can't possibly be slavery under your own definition.

Unless you live in a libertarian "utopia" (which Denmark to all my knowledge is not) you have likely benefitted from social education, healthcare, and protection. Military service is a way of paying this back in addition to taxes. Unless you suggest that we give tax benefits to those who do their military service, then I'm all for that. In that case a voulentary military service would be even better so we could scrap the nearly useless civil-service.

 

1. Why should I have to donate my time (in service) as well as my money (in taxes)? In effect, my tax money represents the time that I have laboured for at something I am good at it. Better to have me do what I am good at and use the resources I have gathered in doing that to allocate to the people who are good at playing soldiers.

2. Why should soldiers get tax benefits AND a salary? That just sounds like excessive administration.

I agree mostly with everything that Montresor said.

 

Conscripted "soldiers" get just enough to get by. They don't get any serious salary. Unless you consider under three euros a day to be a salary. As I said, I lost a hundered euros or so during service and I was not spending a lot. Most lost more money than me, a friend of mine lost 10 000 euros during the time of his service.

A professional army in a small country such as Finland would be impossible if it was supposed to defend the country. Unless you raise taxes significantly and recruit foreigners but I'm not comfortable with that option at all.

 

But it would also be horrendously expensive and detrimental to the economy to rob the workforce of a chunk of its ablebodied young workers just so they can march around and shoot guns. Especially in New Zealand where 75% of the 20 year old males are in London anyway. To conscript the remaining 25% would leave you with no young men doing any real work at all. Chaos!

 

I'm not saying that your country should go to conscription, I'm saying that it's the best option for this country. New Zeeland has a geographic position which makes attacks against it very unlikely unless there's a fascist coup in Australia or something similar but I really don't see that happening.

 

That's a good way of putting it. It is a 'debt' that has been forced upon you. Brings to mind that song...
"You load sixteen tons, what do ya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store"

 

I think I know what you mean, but if they are in London, they cannot simultaneously be in New Zealand.

 

That's exactly my point.

 

first off, what debt? what is it that conscripts owe society?

Secondly, how come over half the population dont owe this? Considering that its only able males, who pay this "debt" of yours

but seriusly define the so called debt, cause currently it stands out as a half assed excuse to keep this archaich form of military alive.

 

What's there to define? You've recieved free education, healthcare and protection from the government. In return you are expected to pay taxes when you find employment and do the military service. It can't possibly be considered slavery since you are yourself benefitting from this system that is there to protect your life and your possessions if and when a war breaks out.

 

Just to highlight this one, neat solution brought up:

No conscription during the time of peace, conscription when the pot starts boiling. Adaptive and efficient, since war does not, by all likelihood, begin without clear warning. And this warning can be assessed by risk-analysis. Time, money, and work saved with a simple solution.

Education is paid with your tax-money and so are healthcare and police. Everything government does is funded by the people and for the people. When you have paid your taxes, you "owe" nothing to the government.

 

Protection comes in many forms not just police. And one of those forms is to have an army to defend you and your property against an outside invasion. This army requires manpower and you are indebted to give the community that manpower.

Well no. The routine is lost after you stop conscripting and will take years to return. Emergency conscription won't work because there are not enough trainers for it to take an short enough time for the country to be able to defend itself. Atleast our official defense policy has counted that there is an approximate time from two to five years to prepare for war. This will not be enough time to get the population properly trained. Also when the enemy who is working up against you notices the start of conscription they will no doubt attack you sooner. Conscripting "at times of risks" might very well be as good as not conscripting at all.