POLL: Flail of Ages +3 or Celestial Fury +3?

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Lucky I saw that "assuming all attacks hit" bit snuck in near the end, or I was going to have to be a real jerk to you about your minimum values.

 

I think the Flail of the Ages is much better. It does depend on your PC's class though. Say if your an assassin I would go with the Celestial Fury hands down, but for any fighter related class or priest I would definately go with the Flail. Here is why...
Celestial fury is awesome for backstabs and mages. They don't directly hurt some creatures but they will stun most allowing you to then do damage.
Now, when you talk about the Flail you should remember these advantages that put it in a class way above the Celestial fury.
It slows everything. On the toughest opponents the Celestial fury's stun never works.
It has elemental damage the CF does not.
It can be upgraded to +5 while the CF can not.
It damages everything (even +5 creatures when upgraded) while the CF does not.
It can provide free-action while the CF can not.
These advantages compared to the stun effect that never works when I need it most, definate tells me to go with the flail. Now in the off hand I wouldn't use the CF. I would go with the Belm +2 for extra flail attacks.
Who was it that said the Flail doesn't work? You obviously don't use it enough to know. Only one weapon comes close to the flail IMO and that's the Carsomyre which I consider a toss-up. It would depend on how fast your opponent can put up stoneskins. Normally a good fighter can take down stoneskins and disrupt spellcasting with the flail and a off hand weapon while hasted/GWW, before a mage can finish one decent spell. I usually would only consider the Carsomyre better when trying to get a real high MR. Anyway I'm getting a little off topic here. Sometimes I like to use the CF just cause I think it looks pretty and has cool special visual effects.

a quote "I think a strong argument can be made that additional attacks are outweighed by a huge strength bonus."
Remember though few ppl really care about the raw damage. Most go for the specials, and a stunned or slowed opponent has penalties and accords you bonuses that outweigh any str. bonuses IMO. Mages can't cast spells, monsters not only have a hard time hitting you but they can only attack half as much. This helps you in several ways not counting the fact that you will hit more often when your opponent is slowed or stunned. First if your opponent is stunned or slowed they can attack less than half as much as normal so you live more than twice as long and can do twice as much damage. Second a slowed or stunned creature has a hard time chasing you giving you the opportunity to run away and heal. Third a stunned or slowed opponent has penalties to thaco meaning not only will he attack less but actually hit you way less than half as much. getting a little long here so I will let it rest unless someone would like more of my opinions

[ October 30, 2004, 04:45: Message edited by: Deathbringer ]

 

@ Klorox:

Off the assumption that all attack will hit, then yes, dual-wielding Crom is far better than using Belm. However, there are two reasons why Belm is a better off-hand weapon.

1. More attacks = more chances to trigger the stun effect. A stunned opponent will be struck automatically. This of course is countered somewhat by the huge bonus that Crom gives to hit, but by the time you can get Crom, you probably have an effective THACO of below zero, and a roll of 1 will always miss anyway. Plus, you will be able to equip the Girdle of Frost Giant Strength (that you haven't used to forge Crom) to have STR 21.

2. Role-playing reasons - katana + scimitar/wakizashi makes sense; katana + war hammer is the ultimate cultural clash, IMO.

Yes, I know...

 

May be a clash but noone is using the belm or CF because they are swords. They only use them for the specials.

 

Well i have Tactics installed and have both De'Arnisse Keep improved and the Guarded Compound improved, so it is both quite hard to obtain both Celestial Fury and the Flail of Ages, because damn Tor'Gal has the last head!
IMO though i like Celestial Fury better because of its stun and lightning damage and i just plan like katanas.

 

Well, when the stun actually does work it is better than slow. But I find, it only fails to work when I need it most. ie. fighting Melisan. Durring SOA I think the CF is better, but when you get to TOB it isn't. You have used up proficiencies you could have spent on other weapons. I like to save all my proficiencies for dualing flail and belm. Maybe a point or two on the mace just for the undead.