POLL: Is burning a CD ethical?

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Wow. Imagine extending this....

[ August 02, 2003, 17:35: Message edited by: Laches ]

 

OK, why not?

A store deserves to have all its merchandise stolen because it can't afford to implement a security system that constantly monitors every single customer.
Police officers derserve to be shot in the head because they only wear bullet-proof vests.
You deserve to be mugged because you don't hire a full-time bodyguard.

How'd I do?

More on-topic, dmc makes a good point. And it's not just the record companies and musicians that lose out, its also anybody involved in the distribution chain. Bottom line is that burning violates copyright laws, and that makes it illegal. Copyright laws exist for legitimate reasons, so breaking those laws is wrong.

 

Indeed, their theft likely makes it more expensive for the rest of us to buy cd's.

 

I find that burning is totally ethical. I don't do it too often, mind you, but that is only because my burner sucks.

 

It's funny you should ask this right now.

I'm currently extracting cd's.

I have a stack sitting next to me, so I'll list them.

Tomb Raider1 (gold)
Mechwarrior2: Mercenaries
Battle Zone (the Diamond Multimedia Monster 3D II version; not to be sold seperately).
Tomb Raider3
Incoming
Mechwarrior2: 31st century combat (enhanced for the diamond monster 3d)
Tomb Raider5
Red Alert1

Now, several years ago, I'd made a cd from most of these disks, picking a choosing which tracks. I've added a couple this time, and I'm going to review the tracks to see if I want any. The Hell March from RA1 is the one I think I'm going to include, but I'll give all the tracks a chance. I'm just extracting all the tracks, and deleting the ones that suck; then I'll load them into Nero and see how much time I have to play with.

Anyways, I put the originals back onto a spindle, and just used my copies. About 6 months or so ago, my last cdrom had flakes off the reflective layer. I'd been wondering why it would skip or lockup in the middle of the disk, but I'd never really looked closely to see the flakes. Un-servicable is the keyword here.

I shudder to think if I had been toteing around 6 or 7 different cd's, having to swap them out to get the few tracks I like off them. And raising the possibility of me crashing into someone on one of the 10+ hour car trips I'm known for, not to mention the wear and tear on the actual disks.

It would cost me $100 (if not $200) to replace all these, since most disk mastering for these games has fallen to some 8th party in Bangladesh. I mean, like Mech2: Mercs, doesn't even work under XP. As in, no patch, and it locks up at a specific mission. Tomb Raider5 plays fine at 640x480, but the joystick will not work; it gets funky signals.

There is a point at where I just call ******** and walk away from all the morons. Mind you, Amoral is without morality.

I'm completely moral.

**** everyone but me. Just like the RIAA.

 

Like it was said above, you can make a "backup" copy of any cd you buy, for your own personal use.
But there are some bands that allow people to copy and trade their music. Some even let you bring a recorder to concerts. One of these bands that I know of is "The Grateful Dead" Its a huge part of the "dead head" culture to record music and swap tapes and cds.
But here is a little something a lot of people don't know. You can make copies of music, video, printed material, etc, just about anything, if it is going to be used for educational purposes, like in a classroom.
You can also, in most cases, simply contact the music company in writing and recieve written permission to make a copy of all or part of a song. When I worked at a zoo in Birmingham, AL, we used music for the Wildlife Shows. All we had to do was obtain written permission and we coulduse the music in our shows.
You can also record up to 30 seconds of a song for whatever use you want. Without getting any kind of permission what so ever. not sure what someone would do with 30 seconds of a song though.

 

Anybody here ever loan a book to anyone? Did the writer get a cut? Everything today is about greed. It used to be that people would loan each other anything. Now since the greed mongers have started calling eveyone crooks becsause they are not making enough money, everybody is questioning themselves and everyone else about the ethics of greed. Those who call it stealing have bought into the ethics of the greedy.If they win out nothing you buy will be really yours, it will only be on "loan" from the greed mongers.

 

I think you will find the copyright notice in books only extends to lending it out copying etc in any other form than that which it is published, including passing on the copyright notice.

"This book is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade or otherwise be lent, resold, hired out, or otherwise circulated without the publisher's prior consent in any form of binding or cover other than that in which it is published and without a similar condition including this condition being imposed on the subsequent purchaser."

In otherwords you may lend, resell, hire out etc, but only in the original binding, complete, etc.

As far as copying CD's are concerned, I'm with the "it is theft" brigade.

 

Unless it's for personal use only. Such as, making a cd of your favorite songs and keeping it for yourself.

 

First off, a few clarifications on the laws of copyright here. I've had to look them up for my own personal uses MANY times so I can tell you the U.S. policy fairly easily though I'm not too sure about many of the other countries

1) CDs/music and TV: It's legal to burn compilations of cds for your own personal use or to say give to a friend -- so long as you don't make money on it. However it's technically illegal to copy songs off of the radio or to tape programs on tv and keep them around for any length of time -- though I feel that it's not actually unethical to do so. For instance, I used to watch the Zorro Tv show at 1:00 in the morning on Disney every single night. (I love Zorro) But last year around this time, they were going to take it off the air after one last long marathon. So I taped all the episodes for my own personal use and I watch them whenever I have a craving. But as soon as Disney decides to market them I'll probably go buy them. Is what I did illegal? Yeah. Immoral? Hell no. Who am I stealing from? The actors won't be getting any money from it, indeed half of them have died already. The Disney Corporation? Possibly but if they had decided to actually sell them ANYWHERE, I would have bought them. And in all honesty I think Disney actually recognized this and that's why they had the Zorro Marathon (you'd be surprised what a huge cult of Zorro lovers there are) Yet the U.S. considers what I did illegal. But illegal isn't always immoral (You can tell I'm not lawful good)

2) Books -- You can lend a book to any friend you want so long as they don't copy it. You just can't rent it to them. Libraries don't rent books, they lend them. And their late fees are more of a punishment not a way of profiting (10 cents a day, I mean come on)

3) It's also now illegal in the U.S. (and Germany; I heard about it on the news) to download music from the internet or via computers. So basically, no more MP3s.
-- And the big question is, is this also immoral?

To be honest, I'm not really sure. I've never felt that just completely free downloading of any music at all was fair to ANYONE in the music business, from the little guy to the big rockstar who spends $1000 on an outfit every day that he only ever wears once... (*cough* Justin Timberlake *gag*) But at the same time, I also feel that the Music Businesses ARE charging a bit much for cds. It costs just as much for them to make cds as it costs for publishers to produce a paperback book and MOST (though not all) of the artists get even less royalties. (Yes, I've looked these up, no sorry, I can't send you a link but I'll look around for where I found these stats and edit them in for you.) Yet a paper-back book costs about $7 (depending on the length) and a reasonable cd costs anywhere between $12 and $19. So somewhere there's some sort of outrageous cheating going on here. And although I'm not a complete Robin Hood, I do lean a little towards there. And although you may say music is a luxury not a necessity, I kind of have to disagree. When I get stressed out, the only thing that calms me down is listening to music and reading. And both of those are a necessity for me.

However, all my cds I've bought on my own and I've never even burned a compilaton (though that's more because I don't want my cds to GET burned and slowly destroyed) The one cd that was burned for me was a copy of a John Mayer cd while I was in the hospital and unable to go buy my own copy. And then when I got out, I did go buy my own copy. But at the same time, I don't criticize people who burn cds (unless it's simply because even though they have the money they don't feel like spending it) because cds have gotten to be expensive for teens like me who don't have their own jobs and have to save up money for movie tickets and the newest Harry Potter and R.A. Salvatore book. My personal opinion is that the music industry IS being a bit greedy and that has led others to be just the same.

So I think there should be a compromise on both sides. Let's go back to using the radio as a promo (and let's remind people that the radio is free for both the music industries AND the people because the stations make their money from commercials) and if since the businesses have been able to make it illegal for them to download MP3s then they should also compromise to the little guy and lower the prices of their cds -- they'd actually end up making more money. And the general population should go back to buying cds at the same prices as novels and stop whining. . . . . Ahhhh if only the world were perfect.

 

Hold on, I don't think you got my point. I know what the law is. It is illegal to make copies. I don't dispute that. I know you can buy used CDs off the internet or at a flee market. In fact, if I don't buy my CDs directly off the artist's web site, then I order them used somewhere (often Amazon). That is part of my continuing buycott of the record industry. I won't buy a new CD if I can absolutely avoid it. If an artst sells his/hers work directly then I will buy it. As far as what is legal is concerned, I'm sure I could pass that law also, if I had an army of lawyers and lobbysts to attack congress with. But I don't. I have just the dollars I earn and the vote I cast at the ballot box.

My point was about ethics, not the law. They are two different things, IMHO.

 

@Chandos -- Yes, I know law and ethics are very different, it's just that a lot of people were confused about whate exactly the laws were. Hopefully, I added some clarification. Speaking of flee markets, that reminds that a lot of cd places like Newbury Comics (common chain of cd stores in Massachusetts) might actually be doing stuff illegally because they buy back used cds from people and sell them again. But then again, I'm not entirely sure that IS illegal. Maybe you just need a permit or something or maybe it only counts illegally if you're selling burned cds? *shakes head* Stupid nit-picky lawyers. They really need to do some lawsuit reforming.

 

Silverwolf - My post was not directed at you. I think we made similar points. I'm all for the artist getting the support of his/her following. But the big media companies are bully boys and greed mongers.

Many artists have compared their commitment to them as a "plantation system." That is why I try to support them directly if I can. The media giants are just trying to prop-up their own useless existence by attacking people who are using the internet. They have been "riding the gravytrain" (I think that was the point of a Pink Floyd song, but I'm not sure now) for so long that they can't bear for it to stop after all these years.

 

i just dont like the idea of a group, making a single song, and making millions. its just not right. then you have superstars that make millions just to do a single episode of some show.
it might not be right (i know that) but i dont really care. Its not like the FBIs going to bust my house in and do anything......so i dont really care

 

Are you sure about giving it to a friend? I'm pretty much in doubt here. It still counts as you giving him a copy.

As I said in my post, they charge as much as possible under law. For example here in Poland books went twice more expensive as the law changed. Now a book that costs Ł6 in Amazon costs well over Ł8 here while groceries etc are 1,5 times cheaper and the average wage is over twice lower. Before the law changed, the prices of books were nearly twice lower than now. It's quite a deal: the state rips 22% in tax immediately on sale and book distributors raise their prices accordingly, ie 22% doubled and growing. Of course, big businesses don't pay the tax (VAT). It's for us, mortals. Because of these reasons, less and less people buy books. Companies don't pay their marketing strategy people for thinking, but for bringing profit. And they want to see the profit immediately, strategy and long term goals aren't as important. You know, there are still those who *must* buy books, like libraries and educational facilities, so the prices go higher and higher and consequently less and less people buy - and so on and so forth. The same applies to music and software. Everything their relies on exclusive rights - everything besides them is illegal. Some of them lower their prices, which for some time has been showing that selling products for reduced prices actually brings much more profit (well, moderately retarded kids in school know that without having to feel it first), but this only applies to a small part of them. The rest keep raising prices and hoping for more popular games that will be liked better and sold better Thus fewer and fewer people buy from them. They go to pirates instead (if they can't burn), so distributors put cash in bribing politicians and local authorities, launching huge campaigns with great pomp and lots of free gadgets like the grammatical monster of a T-shirt with "I'm legal" printed on it, anti-pirate adverts in the press and TV, special awards for the most productive police officers (yes, it's legal for cops to take them) etc etc. They won't instead subtract the amount spent on fighting piracy from the retail price of a product. They just don't think this way. I don't even speak about taking some risk and lowering the price a bit more, so that really, really many people would buy. Just the cash they spend on their 'legal' campaigns. It's amazing how they forget how piracy works and why it succeeds very short after they've switched from it to distribution. Aye, they were all starting as pirates except one company dealing in music that used to belong to the state. Now they're babbling all the time about piracy being immoral. Confronted with their pretty recent past they reply, other than that times were different, that it was legal then (wasn't outlawed). So, something is theft when it's outlawed and isn't when it's legal? Who buys it? Oh, well, some people do.

We haven't had many piracy suits and all of them have been against the sellers of copied CDs on bazaars and large private companies using pirated software. They don't touch individual users, but it's already illegal to buy, not only sell (before now, they had to prove you were getting money) and the highest term is 5 years, not yet awarded to anyone AFAIK. In continental systems you go to prison rather than pay punitive damages (compensation, perhaps some lost profit and 'moral losses'), so there aren't many copyright lawyers running rampant.

 

ethical or not to burn a cd?
The principles of right and wrong, eh?
Well I can understand that it is annoying if you buy a CD and then it break and you are forced to buy a new one. Backup. Backup and backup. Due to the nature of the word both the original and the backup should not be spinning and humming happily at the same time... ever.

 

No matter how you twist and turn things, it's still stealing, and stealing is bad.

At least that's what the bible says, and i don't read that crap. I know it's wrong, but i download music too from sites such as Kazaa. So i'm a criminal, sue me.