POLL: Is burning a CD ethical?

Remove all ads!

@Pac man
It is also stealing to sing the song around the fireplace if you want to twist and turn it more than an eel on a hot pan.

It is only stealing if the other doesn't want you to make it... Were you talking to me or Chev, Pac man?

 

I was talking no nobody in particular, just mumbling in myself like all nutcases do.

 

I do burn music cd's and mainly cd's i can't get my hands on them because they are not imported in Greece and i find normal since i know that only a very small percentage of the price i pay goes to the artist and i would rather pay my money to the artist than any bloodsucking company that sees these people as money machines and nothing more. Furthermore i don't really like myself copying a cd from a new group or a group i like but there is always a but and most of the times an economical one. These cds cost too much 20 to 30 euro and i find this unethical since they don't even spend half of these for the artists

 

It is not legal to give the compilation to a friend. It is legal to make them for your own personal use, however.

IIRC, it's only sites like Napster and Kazaa that are illegal. I'm thinking you can still buy mp3s off of a site like mp3.com, as they do pay royalties to the record companies.

It's not the music businesses that charge that much, it's the retailers. I buy a lot of my CDs direct from the record companies. Guess what I pay? $4 to $8 per CD. The stores and such charge a lot more because of people that insist on shoplifting. Is $4 to $8 reasonable? Yeah, for those of you that think that it's cheap to make a CD, look at the production charges. They're often in the millions. A profit still has to be made or you won't have any music. What would anyone think of that idea?

Is it ethical to burn a CD? Yes, as long as it's for your own use. Once you start giving them to friends and whatnot, absolutely not.

 

It's a necessity for my career that I know copyright law pretty extensively, and I can say Rastor pretty much has it pegged, legally anyway. I agree with him ethically as well, though I have been known to make a CD or two myself for friends. The line is definitely more fuzzy with regard to giving discs to friends, but when it comes to making money off your newly created CD, it's absolutely cut and dried as far as I'm concerned; you're ripping off the original artists and making a buck off of somebody else's work.

And just to clarify:

When you download music that you didn't pay for, you're cheating the original artist/copyright holder. I burn compilation CD's often, but they are all from CD's I own. I won't lie and say I've never burned downloaded songs, because I have. But I acknowledge that doing so is wrong and unfair.

I design websites and graphics. If I were to find out that people were taking images and content from one of my web pages and putting it up on their own, even if they weren't a commercial website (ie not making any money), I still wouldn't be thrilled about it. It's my work, and I don't want anyone using it for anything other than what I intended without my consent.

My 2 cents.

[ August 06, 2003, 17:06: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

 

DR - That's where we really differ. I think you are really hitting the media companies and not the artists when you burn. I think the media companies profit the most from CD sales. The retailers have high overhead and theft to deal with. When I worked for Circuit City Stores there was not a day that went by that someone (usually in packs) was trying to steal in the CD or software (games)department. It was a constant battle.

 

Chandros that is true in a strictly monotary sense.Record companies tend to make more off of cd sales than artist,but you have to remember these are tough times in the music industry.If your record does not sell the band or artist will be dropped without much thought.
Even highly succesful artist's have to live with this these days.Look at how much money (the name of the record company escapes me)gave to Mariah Carey to buy her out of her contract.Based on slumping record sales and a loss of what companies like to call marketablity.
Bands make most of their money of merchandise which include CD sales,t-shirts and all the posters ect ect ect.
From the point of view of someone who Recorded and sold cds for 12 years I have to say when you burn cds you are hurting the band or artist.
I agree cds have gotten out of control in price but burning them is like going to the store and stealing something you want.
People spend there whole lives honing the craft of playing their instruments and learning to write songs,don't rip them off.

 

I don't believe that the artists should worry about legality. All of those artists who do drugs are performing an illegal activity.

And besides, if someone busts Kazaa or even a bunch of people, a new P2P program will take charge, or a bunch of people will form a rally or cult or something against the incarceration of the people. I bet the lawyer that busted Napster had music that he obtained in some illegal fashion.

 

@ Chandos

I don't think we differ, as I agree with you. Yours was just a point I didn't feel like touching on. In this situation, everybody gets ripped off really. The media companies lose profits and the artists lose control and royalties. I think the artist is in a better potential position though. The bright side is that their work is being distributed to new listeners, which is essentially free advertising.

So is it wrong? Yes, I suppose. But as long as the music industry continues to charge $18 for a single CD while their executives make millions, all the while screwing over the actual musicians, I won't lose much sleep over it, especially since I don't burn or download all that often. I actually prefer having an album myself. The quality is always guaranteed to be good, and I always enjoy the cover artwork. I value high-quality digital sound and when you download from somewhere like Kazaa, the sound quality you get is pretty hit and miss. But the retail price of music is just way too out of control, and places that sell used CD's aren't as common now as they were 5 years ago.

But if you think this type of activity is bad in the states, just look at Asia. Countries like China have no recognition whatsoever of U.S. copyright laws, so they bootleg just about everything we make over here. Wanna watch the next Harry Potter movie at home on DVD a week before it hits US threatres? Take a little trip over to Beijing or Viet Nam! It's unbelievable the crap you can buy over there.

 

We do agree, DR. But in the "free market" the media companies have out-lived their usefulness. That is really what all this is all about. Artists are discovering that the technology can set them free from the media companies. Who needs them if the artist can market directly to his/her audience? No one needs the current system except all those worthless media execs who have been raking in the real dough for years.

 

Then those media execs are done for unless they can rake profits in from other sources (copywright lawsuits - ever wonder why they companies claim so much in damages). That still doese'nt make burning cd's ethical, if you're going to do something illegal at least don't try to justify it by saying that they deserve it. However much they might be charging it's still within their rights to do so.

 

I rarely post in the alley, but I have to say that when I have £15 a week to spare on a new CD I will buy them legit. Maybe if "artists" concentrated on making good music rather than making cheap **** that sells well, they might end up, in the long run, with more money. Until that day, I will continue to buy music where I can, and copy a few of my friends' albums onto Minidisc when I simply cannot afford to.

 

Well, this isn't really true. As an example - how many bands achieve big time recognition without the backing of a record company? Shall we go down the various top 40 lists?

Popular music (I don't mean just pop, I mean rock, rap country etc) has always been about being...well, popular. They have to get name recognition. The record companies are able to get this for them because they are very good at getting pub. Compare that to small do it yourself groups --

Who has heard of Britney Spears? Or maybe you want a more 'artistic' band like Tool or Perfect Circle? All big label bands.

On the other hand, who has heard of The Real McKenzies?

Once the bands reach a certain point they could strike out on their own but the record companies get them to that point.

And for any artist to compare their relationship to the plantation system is just silly - like comparing smoking laws to being in a concentration camp in Germany.

 

I see no problem with burning CD's as long as you don't do something stupid like my brother has done in the past...i.e. burning a music CD and selling it to a friend for half the cost of the original CD, or buying a PC game, burning it and then returning it to the store for a refund.
People who do that sort of thing deserve any and all punishment they get, like when I called the store and reported what my brother had done.

But, if you are burning a CD that was legally acquired, and are just burning a CD as a backup copy, or just for a friend (for free), then I have no problem with it all.

 

Laches - I thought the issue here was dough. Now, if it is just popularity, yes that is true. But despite being famous, like Jimi Hendrix, some of the "popular" artists see very little of the total amount of money that is generated from their fame. Hendrix was an example of a guy who made millions for everyone involved in his music but himself. the media companies rake in most of the dough. That is why so many artists try to get out of their original contracts. The last I heard the Dixie Chicks were fighting a losing battle against Sony Corp. The term "plantation system" was used by Don Henley of the Eagles to describe how the current system works.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/2934535.htm

 

From your linked article:

I think that's kinda what I'm talking about. I think the marketing of the big boys is more important to the success of a lot of artists than they like to admit.

Popularity begets the dough.

A good example of what I mean is Dave Matthew's Band who travelled around and achieved success on their own but it wasn't until they got a major record deal with RCA that they really began to rake in the dough.

I can appreciate wanting to market yourself. And I can appreciate that the internet might be a tool to do so. However, there is so much STUFF on the internet that drawing attention to yourself is really hard. And drawing attention to yourself is a must if you want to hit it big as a music star and make the big money. Record labels give you the attention.

Also, I'd note that 10-20% of 10 million is a lot more than 50% of $100,000. The article you linked talked about a lot of smaller indie labels and I found that interesting because it shows that the artists aren't doing it themselves they're just looking for better deals from other record labels. However, as the article points out, those labels don't have the reliability of the big companies and their smash hits seem to be the exception to the rule.

And I still think these artists comparing themselves to slaves and the plantation system are sadly out of touch with reality and could probably use a slap to the face. Slaves indeed.

 

The article was a fair balance on two sides of an issue, which is why I chose to link that one. There are a lot on this subject, presenting one side or the other. I see you chose your side.

 

This is just my tuppence worth, although in online charges it cost more than tuppence, which is part of what I am going to say.

Record companies don't sell music, they sell the plastic medium on which music is distributed.

The people have spoken, and they have said stick your overpriced plastic up your ****.

The medium of choice is now the internet and the providers are the telephone companies (telcos).

As consumers we pay for the music through our telco charges. The telcos do not pay a fair share of their profits to the Artists even though they can easily log the downloading of each music file if they wanted to. The telcos are acting unethically by not putting in place a system whereby artists leave their music on the web for anyone to download, and the charges for the use of the medium are split between the artist and the telco.

The artist getting a share of the telco revenue is no different than the artist getting a share of the plastic revenue.

If every song was 'free' to download there would be no piracy and no need for unlogged downloads of the songs. Making illegal copies would be a waste of effort (like copying a 4CD £5 'Sold Out Range' game is.)

The hype-merchants and star-makers would simply transfer their talents to the telcos' music departments, ensuring that new boy/girl bands continued to keep bandwidth revenues pouring in.

This is no different than the Linux distribution mechanism whereby companies make their money by distributing and supporting (hyping) a free product.

Of course, the power to create stars will go from the hands of the few (Milli Vanilli, anyone) to the hands of the many (Star Wars Kid Rocks).

Telcos and knee-jerk anti-piracy governments are stopping Artists reaping the rewards of their labours. All it would take is a change in policy and the million songs that are downloaded tommorrow would put £10,000 pounds in Artist's bank accounts, without a single downloader knowing that it had happened.

Just my opinion. On a linked topic I would like to commend this site on its refusal to tolerate piracy in any form on these boards. The BG Series is recognised as a first rate product that few would say was worth anything less than the full asking price.

Unfortunately Kazaa does lead us into temptation, and we need a new way of thinking to go with the internet's new way of working. A way that will deliver us from evil.

Neverwinter, funnily enough, has grasped that nettle, with its drive towards community game creation. All you are really paying for is your Product Key. That key opens the door to access all the free content on the web. Bioware is getting paid by controlling the redistribution of free web software. You can pirate Neverwinter off the web if you like, but you are still on the outside looking in.

The telcos should be paying for music downloads.
The telcos should be paying for software downloads.
The telcos should be paying for Sorcerers Place (Custom Content) downloads.

I'm ranting a bit. I'll be quiet. Just a few more questions.

What happened to Amy? Did Oaz ever forgive himself? Do people realise that Kazaa is spyware and they should be using Kazaa Lite (and not one of the dodgy versions of K-lite either)?

[ August 25, 2003, 12:55: Message edited by: Bluin ]

 

I don't think burning cds is all that bad...When you copy them and sell them. That's illegal.

I remember when I was a kid, I bought albums (see archaic form of cds). They were big, bulky, and difficult to carry around to listen to. Often times, I would only really like one or two songs on the album, so I created tapes of them.

I would play the record, and record the songs I liked onto a tape. That way, I could listen to my favorite songs in the car, or in a cassette player. Pretty neat, huh?

I do the same thing with cds. I usually buy the original, then rip the songs I like onto my pc. Then I make a cds of my favorites, so I can listen to it in the car, or on my portable cd player. What's wrong with that? Nothing.

The RIAA is a complete bunch of crap! Album sales are not going down because people are copying the music...The music industry pumps out mostly garbage these days...What they should do, is focus on putting out better music, rather than letting any knucklehead with a dream of stardom put something out.

Wow! I haven't had a MOnday morning rant in a long time! That felt good!

[ August 25, 2003, 16:48: Message edited by: Sir Belisarius ]

 

I agree fully with that statement.