POLL: Most persecuted religion

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I think this view is shared by some scholars. Particularly Edward Said - His book _Orientalism_ is a classic work on the subject. But it is really more on the line that Islamic people are persecuted, rather than the religion, although that is still a piece of it. It's a few years since I read it, but I did not agree with a lot of what Said had to say on East/West relations. Nevertheless, there are some well-written books on the subject.

[ July 26, 2003, 22:19: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

As far as China is concerned, you could say that it is a capitalist economy under a Communist regime, which as others have pointed out will absolutely not tolerate any perceived challenge on its leadership - hence the distrust of any religion with ideas of unity, having a strong central authority, etc.

 

Propaganda? Evidently you are not familiar with the United States. In the U.S. the press is completely independant from the Federal Government and the member states. The First Amendment of the Constitution spells this out.

The many of the Third-World countries have a state-controlled press - which then operates as a propaganda machine. Practically all of the Middle East suffers under this regime with the exception of Al-Jazeera. When Al-Jazeera first came on the scene, most of the Middle Eastern governments were angred and demanded that Qatar dismantle the company.

The United States has had a free press for over 250 years!

The Middle East has a poor reputation in the United States due mainly to Palenstein. Remember, in the U.S. the Middle East never is really reported on - no one really cares - unless, that is, something terrible happens. Usually, this is a suicide-murder in Israel or their response to it.

 

What is Palenstein?

 

Better ask: Who is?
http://www.bigthings.ca/sask/edam.html

With dutch ancestors it is not difficult to assume they might indeed have come from Palenstein, Netherlands: http://www.palenstein.nl I hoped I helped answering your question.

 

"Palenstein" is a very, very bad misspelling of Palestine!

Palestine is the occupied territory that Israel captured when attacked by Egypt, Syria, etc... It has the reputation in the U.S. as a "no man's land", a place of unchecked crime and searing hatred.

 

What about the poor atheist? Everywhere one turns, one is bombarded with subtle religious-based messages. Nothing overt, mind you, just a continual reminder that the dominant portion of society falls under an umbrella of belief that an atheist does not share. Does persecution have to be intentional?

 

I really do not think that islam really gets under the most persecuted sign here. Sure the faith may have gained some bad rep these last years but it is still nothing compared to what the jews have suffered. When it comes to the jews so was the holocaust just the climax of millenia of persecution. The christians may have had a few bad centuries during the Roman empire but it is still nothing compared to the jews. The rest arent worth mentioning in the same breath.

However I think Rallymamma has a point. Atheism or lack of faith has not been very popular throughout the centuries. I think that might very well be the most persecuted 'religion' as not believing has been a capital offence in most places where a monotheistic religion have been in place.

 

A recent survey on religion and politics says Rallymama is right, in America at least: Atheism beats Judaism, Evangelical Christianity and Catholicism put together when the question is about what faiths you find unacceptable from a politician you'd otherwise vote for. But Islam runs a close second.

"At the same time, significant numbers of Americans say they would be reluctant to vote for a presidential candidate ­ even if generally well-qualified ­ if the candidate was a member of a specific faith. Nearly four-in-ten (38%) say they would not vote for a well-qualified Muslim for president, and 15% express concern about voting for a well-qualified evangelical Christian. Far fewer say they would not vote for a Jewish (10%) or Catholic (8%) candidate. But fully half say they would not vote for a well-qualified atheist."

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=189

 

Well, I'm not sure that really qualifies as persecution and I am an atheist. Compared to say, the holocaust, people not voting for you for president just doesn't really seem in the same ball park. I mean, I'd feel a little.... peculiar telling a Jew whose grandparents were in Auschwitz that I can empathize because I've been persecuted too.

Perhaps persecution should be defined?

 

Laches, throughout history atheists have taken a lot of rough persecution. No one accepted atheists. It is just in the last 50 years that atheism has turned into something somewhat accepted. Not a single european from 300AD up to 1750 would dare to admit that he didnt believe in god. If he did it would be the end of him. However they werent persecuted per se as atheism has never been very organised, due to some fairly self explanatory reasons.

 

Copernicus comes to mind. Wasn't he afraid of persecution, for puplishing his works and therefore let it puplish after dead ? So atheists in general had a hard time, but scientists had even a harder time.

 

Yago, please tell me you're not confusing scientISTS with scientOLOGY...

 

Ahm, no. Well maybe my English skills are little bit ambigious here, but I mean scientists like physics, biologists and so on. As a special group of atheists (even if they weren't at all mostly) which were kind of in a spotlight and therefore main target of persecution.

Not involving any members of scientology. Makes me just realize, that even their name is a PR-choice.

 

I figured that's where you were going but it never hurts to be sure (recalling someone who had confused Moonies and Mormons and Mennonites, oh my... )

 

-- If you're talking about persecution as in maltreatment, than Judaism is the one.
But if you're talking about persecution as in discrimination then Islam is the one

-- Atheism is a belief NOT a religion.
Religion based on a fact that there is a greater being (something greater than human) that create, guide and watch over them asserted by a set of rules that define the rituals and assignment/distribution of reward and punishment (ie good = Heaven and bad = Hell).
A cult is based on a fact there is something more "powerfull" (not necessarrily more than human) that needs to be obeyed and feared.
Atheism is a belief that doesn't believe in any of those mentioned above.
There for, if we're talking Religion, then Atheism doesn't belong here

-- to Black hawk.
Propaganda doesn't have to be like that. Especially in recent/modern times where information is valued more than any other resources, and where the peope are smarter, more aware of their surrounding, and evaluate things better. If a country such as US choose to directly or evidently manipulate the press than people would surely notest, but if they choose to mislead the information (misinformation) by twisting and covering facts, than they would surely succed. Something that US is very familiar with i believe, afterall US did teach this knowledge to their soldiers (or elite soldiers, i can't remember) and particulary their secret agents

Considering the delicate and possibly biased nature of this topic, and if you wish to get better result than a mere chatter and satisfaction of your curiosity. Then i think you should define persecution and narrowed the scope. Like giving a date range (ie 1800-1900, or 1990- 2003 and the like) Explain what you want to achieve or something like that.
cause people think differently one another ==> I learned that it is never wise to assume that your audience knows what you know, even if it really is obvious.

 

@ Alurith:
Re atheism – I disagree that it doesn’t belong here. Atheism is just the flip side of religious faith and belief. Any discussion on religion is IMHO incomplete without including atheism. I would also suggest that agnosticism belongs here too, which essentially says that it is impossible to know whether or not God exists, and therefore allows for any possibility.
With regards to the propaganda issue, I have to say that, from watching the media coverage following 9/11, the North American media went to reasonable lengths to point out that we should not condemn the entire Muslim faith based on the actions of a few fanatical and misguided terrorists. Any prejudices against Islam after 9/11 were the result of our own painting of Muslims with the same terrorist paintbrush.

 

I too agree, that atheism and agnostics must be included. Even if they are not a "religion", they are/were/will be persecuted for religious reasons.

The same is for making a distinction between political reasons or "pure" religious reasons. This distinction is simply not possible. Because a lot of religion is nothing else but simple politics. Politics is religion and religion is politics. Can't keep them separated, especially when persecution comes into play. In this case it's because the politics in religion are affected.

 

Alurith,

Religion:
"Religion is any specific system of belief about deity, often involving rituals, a code of ethics, and a philosophy of life."
Thus we would consider Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Native American Spirituality, and Neopaganism to be religions.
We also include Agnosticism, Atheism, Humanism, Ethical Culture etc. as religions, because they also contain a "belief about deity" -- their belief is that they do not know whether a deity exists, or they have no knowledge of God, or they sincerely believe that God does not exist.

Religioustolerance.org

I still fail to see the difference between Religion and cult


Edit:

Cult:

[ July 29, 2003, 18:30: Message edited by: Morgoth ]

 

To me (and this is just my personal view), a cult basically dictates how you should live every little aspect of your life, and almost everything you do must be for the benefit of the cult. Religion, on the other hand, provides guidelines on how to live your life, but allows some freedom on the details of your everyday actions. Obviously, there are degrees here; to me, Christianity allows more freedom than Islam, but I don’t view either one as a cult.