POLL: On a Torment Sequel

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@Ray192 - how do you mean a "NEW TNO" he was unique he didn't create any others. The incarnations in the fortress of regrets are those that reached it during their incarnation (including the first incarnation) but when they reached it the next incarnation was spawned (or whatever term is appropiate). Those incarnations were destroyed or absorbed by TNO (the player one) and he regained his mortality at the end either by fighting or merging with the TO and was thus sent to fufill his punishment to whit - fighting in the blood wars. He didn't create another TNO because he was now the NO (named one). Unless you meant the shadows - 1 created for every TNO incarnation that died. But i would assume that as his mortality was regained they too were destroyed (like the TO).
So basically your suggestion is not viable in the continuity of the Ps:T story.
If i have made any mistakes above then anyone feel free to correct me (it's been some time since i played the game last).

Oh and if anyone's interested i made a one tiny area NWN mod with custom characters of TNO, Annah, Morte, Vhailor, and Dakkon (ignus, nordom and ffg were not possible since i don't know how to reskin). They are not as good as they could be but with a little imagination (or a lot in the case of vhailor, im really not happy how he turned out but it was the best i could do without some reskinning) you can see them as who they are meant to be.

 

Lazy Bonzo, would you be able to copy that little mod of yours and send it to me? I'm interested to see what sort of dialogue and such you wrote for them (that's not my strong suit, unfortunately).

Anyway, your analysis of the PST story is pretty accurate. There is a thread somewhere in this forum about the identity of TNO and his history, if you want more information, dig it up. I don't know why the shadows would be destroyed as well, as they are the beings who died in his place.

 

The incarnations you meet in the Fortress are not those that reached it during their lifetime. Only the Practical Incarnation did of those three.

1. The Original Incarnation tells you the crystal split you upon touching it;
Original Incarnation: "I am one of your incarnations. I was once lost, now I am here again" ... "Whatever you touched within the Fortress has brought pieces of yourself to the surface."

2. The "Sounding Stone" that the Practical Incarnation made also tells you this is what the crystal does;
"As for the crystal... it doesn't seem like it belongs in the Fortress, and its size and shape reminds me of something I've read in the annals, some sort of dimensional prison that segments the soul."

3. The Original Incarnation ponders why those three specific incarnations are there;
Nameless: "I have had countless lives. Why are there only three incarnations here?"
Original Incarnation: "I do not know. Perhaps we were the three pieces that were somehow still present in your mind."
Nameless: "Present? How?"
Original Incarnation: "I do not know for sure, but I would guess that when we die, traces of the former personality may remain in your mind..."

4. The Original Incarnation tells you he's never been to the Fortress before. Even though he did lie to you about some things, it's unlikely this was a lie considering #5.

5. Ravel "killed" The Original Incarnation right after she made him immortal (both Ravel and the Original Incarnation tell you this).

6. Aelwyn tells you she killed what was obviously the Paranoid Incarnation;
Aelwyn: "You and I, Aelwyn, have met on two different occasions" ... "the last more recently. Perhaps no more than fifty years ago" ... "You lashed out at me, Aelwyn, made to slay me. Screamed how I, Aelwyn, could not fool you, would not ensnare and murder you" ... "We had met in one of the northern towers of the Festhall, on the seventh floor. Before you could choke the life from me, I, Aelwyn, used my powers to bade you leap from a window to your death. When I, Aelwyn, finally went in search of your broken body, you had already gone..."

7. The Practical Incarnation tells you;
Practical Incarnation: "I was the first to breach this Fortress"
Though, admittedly, he could have been lying or simply ignorant.

Finally, ignoring everything above (except #5, which is as much a fact as anything in the game can be) how could the Original Incarnation possibly have gotten trapped in the Fortress?
-The Transcendent One set up the crystal trap in the Fortress.
-The Transcendent One did not exist until Ravel's ritual.
-Ravel killed the Original Incarnation soon after the ritual.

We at least know that both the Original Incarnation and the Paranoid Incarnation died, and in a place other than the Fortress.

Frankly, #5 alone is enough to prove you wrong (but don't forget the others).

 

"@Ray192 - how do you mean a "NEW TNO" he was unique he didn't create any others. The incarnations in the fortress of regrets are those that reached it during their incarnation (including the first incarnation) but when they reached it the next incarnation was spawned (or whatever term is appropiate). Those incarnations were destroyed or absorbed by TNO (the player one) and he regained his mortality at the end either by fighting or merging with the TO and was thus sent to fufill his punishment to whit - fighting in the blood wars. He didn't create another TNO because he was now the NO (named one). Unless you meant the shadows - 1 created for every TNO incarnation that died. But i would assume that as his mortality was regained they too were destroyed (like the TO).
So basically your suggestion is not viable in the continuity of the Ps:T story.
If i have made any mistakes above then anyone feel free to correct me (it's been some time since i played the game last)."

your correct, however, that's the point! A new incarnation is born or created, but how the hell is that possible????? That's is what your supposed to find out!

 

^ Uh, no that's not how it works. A new body is not formed for each incarnation. Nameless One simply forgets and a new personality is formed. That is how a new incarnation is created. It's still using the same body.
The only reason you could actually meet and talk to other incarnations in the Fortress was because of the crystal trap that had just split you.
And if you already knew that than your idea makes very little sense...

[ September 17, 2002, 22:17: Message edited by: Platter ]

 

ughh... that's IS THE IDEA!!! NOT to make sense! That is what makes a story interesting! A incarnation is impossible, right?? Well, a new incarnation appears, and your goal is to find out WHY did you appear!

 

Lazy Bonzo you owe me an essay! Or at least the admission that I'm right.

 

Off topic - @Platter i do know you are right. I have made the mistake about the incarnations before and had it corrected before. What i wrote was how i could remember it (i havent played the game in quite some time, and my memory is lousy at worst).

On topic - @Ray192 *sigh* as platter has already said it couldnt happen. TNO is mortal now and, although powerful, would most likely have perished at the hands of Taanari (sp?) and Abashai (sp?). Your plot idea would just be a regurgitated version of torment - find out the reason for your existence and break it down. Torment was good because it had an original and enticing plot that hadnt been done before (there are others - character interaction, side-quests, and well everything etc).
Remember that the planescape universe encompases all others (d&d settings and the real world). Using the planescape setting (and using more of the portals) you could make a totally unlinear game where you could travel to any world imaginable. Now that would be a worthy sequel to the greatness of Ps:T.

 

hey, it was a idea, and also, is there such thing as "impossible" in planescape?

 

Hmm interesting point and while technically what with the considered nature of planescape setting (as i understand it) it's probably not impossible (although technically nothing in the infinite universe of time and space is impossible) but well torment was the story of TNO and the planescape setting has so sooooo much to offer that it would be a shame to stick with the TNO and have a much higher chance of spoiling it. Personally i would love somethng to do with the modrons (with dan castellano stil ldoing the voices "doh!") because the modrons are so cute

 

Still I like the idea of playing one of TNO's followers...

You must start with leaving the fortreSS since it will disapear when TNO leaves, and if you can't get out, you will disapear to!

After that the game could return to sigil or what ever :0)!

 

"You must start with leaving the fortreSS since it will disapear when TNO leaves, and if you can't get out, you will disapear to!"

TNO teleported them back to Sigil, eh?
"I WILL RETURN YOU TO SIGIL, IF YOU WISH."
Except Grace, she said no - but that's because she can teleport at will, being a succubus.
And Ignus went to the Elemental Plane of Fire, of course.

 

How about something like this: Years after TNO's adventure ends, a problem arises. Maybe magics form in the fortress because of some sort of magic trauma (this is just a some thoughts from being bored) and shadows and souls are released. You are not TNO or anyone like that, but a new character, but one think you have to do is investigate the problems. The main problems could be: Shadows are appearing, they are killing innocent people at night, and the people, and everyone else thinks its just a bunch of serial killers, maybe link them to a faction and you can try to prove the factions innocence as a side quest . But you must find out why shadows appeared. Another problem could be something along the lines of the lady of pain getting weakned from the problem in some way. So people take advantage and maybe small riots, or other problems emerge. So you must fix things, maybe bring back some of the old NPC'S who can help out in a big way, by telling some info and theories. One thing that would be great if is the dustues get frightned by the huge outburst of negative magic and its affecting them in bad ways, so they all lock themselves into the mausleum and fortify it, and then later on in the game when you are on your huge quest you got to get in, kill or pursuade your way through. I just thought that something along these lines would be neat to see.

 

Soul here. That would be absolutly great. If it was a prequel, then perhaps it could follow the incarnation that travelled with Deionarra, Morte, Dak'kon, and the blind archer. Of course, the game has pointed out that that particular incarnation was one of the most detestable beings who ever lived... no matter. I loved Torment, it may not have had as much stuff (particularily armour or weapon types) as the Baldur's Gate series, but it was so different from them, that the unique gameplay made up for it. They ARE, eventually, going to make another game set in the Planescape universe, but if it was Torment 2, it'd be all the better.