POLL: Premarital Sex

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Well, the studies that started this discussion normalized for income, meaning that even when the mother and child's standard of living was the same as if the father had lived with them, the child was more likely to have emotional problems, got sick more often, didn't perform as well in school, etc.
Apparently, the simple presence of and interaction with the father is what makes the most difference. Interestingly, married families where one parent works a lot and/or is not involved with the child see similar results. Thus many psychologists and sociologists are coming to see that both parents do a better job raising the child than one. Studies are still underway as to whether gender makes any difference (i.e. are boys more succeptable than girls and do same-sex parents have the same problems or is it simply two parents that matters).

 

Oh, sorry, I missed your point again. If you were simply trying to point out that if you have two parents around, you're more likely to have a better childhood than if you only have one parent around, I'd say that's pretty obvious. Raising a child is a monumental chore for two people to undertake, and if there's only one person around, it just has to make it that much more difficult. So yes, I would agree that you're better off having two parents around.

 

And I think that's utterly bollocks. Frankly I think people simply lie when it comes to an unwanted pregnancy. When the father asks the new or soon-to-be son in law "Did you use a condom?!" "Yes, sir." even if he did or did not. The chance of failure is through impropper application. Just slipping a condom on and shoving it in will cause it to break. Failing to take the pill at the correct time will break the cycle. When a product is mass produced I'd say people are the ones to blame when the product fails.

 

I'm with you on this one Abom. I've never broke a condom, and never got anyone pregnant. I've been married for 3 years now, my wife is on the pill, and she has never got pregnant. Based on the statistics that are sited, I definitely have been for more than simply "lucky". Except with the pill - if taken properly the chance of pregnancy in a year is like 0.3%, so I'd have to be married to my wife for approximately 333 years to expect an unwanted preganancy. Only 330 to go!

 

Condom statistics are due to improper appication, breakage, etc. The latex molecules are simply too tightly bound to allow a sperm cell through, by a significant degree. As for chemical contraceptives, well, some of them are ineffective on certain biochemistries, meaning that it will always work for most and never or rarely for a few, and others are based on assumed chemical levels inside the woman't body, meaning a drastic diet change from the norm, use of any number of other chemical substances, a few hormonal changes, or sometimes even the onset, continuation, or conclusion of common diseases like the flu can prevent them from acting properly. The statistics in these cases are based on how often these things occur and how likely people are to have sex durring them. Some chemical contraceptives even rely on a build-up of the chemicals in the woman's body, meaning she has to use a continued, regular dosage to get the effect.

 

That's in the now.

Later the financial strain and stress comes in, kid's are more expensive as they get older, college, etc, but the cost will be amplified if you have a divorce, and isn't it that a person now has more chance of dying or being killed in the next 10 years than sustaining a marriage for that long? I think that was a UK thing, but I read some statistic on the length of time the average marriage lasts, and it was something really ridiculously low. Good luck.

Me? I'll continue happily to make my own meals, and keep my intimate relationships short and sweet, and my well being is the better for it

 

OK then, I'd better nip it in the bud now, just in case in gets worse later. Thanks for the advice. Here I was enjoying the laughter of my 2 year old son when he tries to catch a ball or beaming with pride when succeed in counting all the way to 15 all by himself, when really I was just setting myself up for a life time of misery at some point in the future. How could I have been so blind?!

 

You can be ready to take that responsibility without being married. Everything in life carries a risk. Sex happens to have more severe risks than most things in life, but all that means is that one needs to take heavier precautions, as well as be willing to accept resposibility for one's actions. That means not abandoning one's partner/child if one's partner becomes pregnant. Of course that could feasibly create an unhappy family, which makes me believe that sex is best conducted within loving, stable relationships, though not necesarily married ones (As I have already argued). Of course, if two people want a one-night-stand, and they are willing to undergo the necesary preperations as well as accept the possible consequences, its fine with me. They are gambling, but they know the stakes.

 

That was my point. If people are not prepared for that, they should not be having sex.

Nothing comes without risk.

But a lot of the pre-marital sex is by people not ready or willing to take these responsibilities. Besides, the framework of marriage makes these things easier to deal with (less uncertainty over your partner).

 

Sorry to quote so much here but it's all valid. To summarise a woman will NEVER become pregnant if the pill she is on has been perscribed by a doctor who has performed the required tests to ensure compatibility AND she takes it when instructed.

I don't fully agree. If the couple are not wise/smart enough to use contraceptives in the proper fashion then they shouldn't be having sex OR if they aren't prepared to support the offspring. If they are either or both then it's fine. Quite often the very act of an unprepared couple becoming pregnant gets them prepared VERY QUICKLY.

 

You enjoy it, and there's every chance you'll have a life of wonderful joy and die happily, as a grand parent still in love and married to your partner, but that is more like a fairy tale. I personally wouldn't like that set up, even if I was guaranteed a fairy tale ending, again, I am the most important person in the world, to me, and will continue to be. The pros of marriage are nothing compared to the cons, and especially those very likely long term cons. The best you can come up with is "a meal waiting for me", ace.

 

I think one of the definitions of love is caring about the person you love as much as you care about yourself. Your two fates become entwined, and his/her happiness becomes intrinsically tied to your own. Of course, love is not neccesarily for everyone, perhaps you, Sarevok, simply do not care for it personally. But just because you do not feel that particular emotion does not mean it is weak or invalid in itself, and does not mean marriage itself is flawed.

 

I always find Sarevok's insights to be fascinating, even though I disagree with them half the time.

 

True. I know a couple that has gone through that. I still hold that chastity is the best, but understand that I'm not in control.

I've heard too many testimonials to convinve me that it is NOT a fairy tale. But all have told that it takes commitment, dedication and humility.

As long as that is what you believe, then you are right to avoid marriage. But what if someday, someone comes along and calls that into question?

That's what I've always been taught. That's what also scares me about marriage. I don't see my fate aas being particularly bright, and I fear dragging someone else down with me...

 

Hopefully you find someone who helps brighten your fate, that is you and her work together to pave a bright future for the both of you...

 

Wow, Gnarff, I didn't know you could be this depressing. Cheer up, bud. Misery loves company.

Anyway, there are really rather few people that can actually get prepared that quickly. Not that it can't happen, but it's hardly worth concidering in a general discussion of the morality of pre-marital sex.

 

No, not weak or invalid at all, I don't dismiss love, although I dismiss marriage. I know and have felt love for a partner before, I am not a cold feelingless vacent person that you must think I am. I think love takes a very strong hold over some people, especially young guys, and it affects decisions they make which alter the course of their life, in many cases altering it for the worse, and so many people desperately try to find love, thinking that it is the missing piece to their happyness or "feeling good level", but it is not, and it never is, but that's another story

 

So is your point, Sarevok, not that love is invalid, but that it cannot last, and therefore marriage is doomed to eventual failure, suceeding only in trapping the two partners in something they will eventually rue?

 

I think Sarevok's real problem is that he's seen so many people turn to 'love' of others to fulfill a deep-seated lacking in themselves. This never works out. I've seen it myself. Two people looking to each other to complete them, to support them. Its kind of like a drowning man clinging to a drowning man, or even a rescuer who can swim. They both drown in the end. On the other hand, two people who are satisfied with themselves and genuinely fall in love, sharing their lives and every part of themselves, can find greater fulfillment and happyness than they could seperately, and that's before you concider all the joys of parenting.
Don't discount marriage all together, Sarevok. Just look for people who are ready for it, first.

 

Not all marriages are doomed to failure, no, but most are, and I don't need to back that up, it's a fact, and many marriages which do manage to last the long stretch, often last for the wrong reasons, but it also depends on what you mean by failure, if you mean end stop finish, then no, that's not going to be the case for every marriage, I just accept that eventually, the whole buzzing energy in the marriage will dissipate, and sexy lingerie, new positions, or holidays in the sun aren't going to save it, you will get bored of your partner, or your partner will get bored of you, and you can argue with me all day long about it, but one day you'll have to wake up and smell the coffee, this is what happens. IMO. Anyway, I better not say much more here, or the mods will be along to own my ass for going off topic.