POLL: Spouse Selection

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I really don't want to think about that too much, but point taken. Also, I will freely admit that the poll is very simplified. It's not like looks and personality are the ONLY thing that you take into account for a future spouse. It's also probably a good idea for the two of you to be on a similar maturity level, and a similar intellectual level, which is on a separate level from personality. I love my wife, but I doubt we would have got married if she had an IQ of 60. And of course there are other complicating factors. Some people will only consider potential spouses if they follow the same religion, or are of the same race. Finally, it is also true that people tend to marry those who are of a similar economical status, which is strange, considering most people would say that they would NEVER marry for money. While it may be true that not many people would consider marrying someone to become rich, there does seem to be a certain hesitance in marrying someone that may make you poor. So even though it isn't about the money, it really IS about the money.

 

Hmm... not marrying someone who could make you poor is not the same as marrying someone so he would make you rich and it's not the same when you cast your net in your own financial circles and if you dump someone for falling into poverty while being in a relationship with you. Especially women used to have to choose a solid provider.

As for religion, I think it's reasonable, really. There's more to it than just how you say your prayers and what symbols you wear. Especially if you take it seriously. And especially if you happen to be Catholic. No abortion, no euthanasia, no contraception, you know the drill. And I can't marry at all if I can't marry in a valid and sacramental way, so there's also Canon Law to consider. This means I can't marry with someone who doesn't accept marriage as union between a man and woman leading to procuring offspring through some measure of sexual activity (and yes, specific knowledge of the technicalities isn't absolutely required ), exclusive and indissoluble. And no previous valid marriage or monastic vow.

So, for example, no matter how hot or smart or kind or sweet the person is, if she's already married and her marriage is valid (ecclesiastic for Catholics, any between baptised non-Catholics per Canon Law) or she's a nun and they won't let her go... no option.

 

They most certainly are different. That's why I said most people wouldn't marry someone to improvie their economic standing, but a lot people would refuse marriage if it would hurt their economic standing. I think we're agreeing in an odd sort of way.

And I wasn't being judgemental about it. If your religion is very important to you, it is perfectly reasonable to want to marry someone who also practices that religion. My wife's parents are like this. One of the most important criteria they had for their children is they marry someone who is Catholic. While I'm not a good Cathlic, I'm baptized and confirmed, and therefore I'm official, so it was good enough. They actually didn't approve of the marriages between two of my wife's sisters, as one married someone who was Christian, but not Catholic, and the other married someone who was Catholic, but he was also divorced and didn't get an official annulment from the Church, thus invaliding his second marriage to my wife's sister. (Hmmm... It probably would have been easier just to refer to him as my brother-in-law now that I think about it.)

The same goes for race. Heck, it's beyond race - it sometimes gets down to ethnicity. My father tells me his parents did not initially approve of him marrying my mother, because she wasn't Italian. So it wasn't a question of being a different race as they were both white, it was specifically ethnicity that they didn't like. Also, there's a greater chance if you pick someone who is of a different race that they are also practicing a different religion, so that might be two factors working against the union.

 

Yeah, we're in agreement about the financial thing. I think I sort of wanted to develop it a little. And I know you weren't judgmental about religion.

One more thing... I know you probably see the difference, but there's no annulment in the Church. Marriage can be found void from the beginning but it can't be invalidated retroactively. Most states annul marriages and simply invalidate them, but that's not what the Church does. So if the Church says your marriage is void, it means it was from the beginning, not just annulled instead of dissolving.

Race isn't necessarily so racist. It doesn't have to rely on considering other races inferior... And we can't just say, "Oh what a racist, she only dates whites." Granted. I totally agree. And ethnicities also matter because there's quite a lot of cultural differences, history shaping people and whatnot. Even the kind of books you read in childhood and then in school matters. For some people it adds spice, for others it makes cohabitation impossible.

There's another factor with race: children. You may be totally OK with each other's different race, but what will families say? How will both races react to mixbred children? Besides, I think some people may feel bad about turning someone down if he/she is of a different race because refusal would seem racist and make the person look bad. I think people shouldn't be stigmatised for not wanting to date other races or ethnicities.

In fact, I don't go far from there myself. While I don't restrict myself to just Catholics or just Christians, I need agreement on morality and some respect for the theology (no distasteful jokes etc). AA moral atheist or hinduist or whatever is more compatible than a Catholic doctor performing abortions or euthanasia, for instance.

 

Yeah, it probably would have been better for me to phrase it that they couldn't get an annulment, rather than saying they didn't get an annulment.

That's good news for me, because if it was, I'd be a racist. I have never dated anyone who wasn't white, but it wasn't based on any racial tendancies on my part (at least not that I'm aware of). I have found women of different races attractive, but I've never dated anyone who wasn't of European ancestry (and seeing as how I'm married now, it likely means I'll never date anyone of non-European ancestry). So I guess I'm actually more ethno-centric than anything, as Jewish and Mideastern people are also Caucasian, and I've never dated any of them either.

 

I know that were I to bring someone home who wasn't Caucasian, she may get ribbed a little worse than someone white.

Also, My church encourages marriage not only among those of the same religion, but who's membership is in good standing. At my age, I don't have the luxury of peing that picky. If she understands how I live, and doesn't indulge in serious violations of those beliefs, I believe I could live with her.

 

That's a somehow reasonable rule because there's often less difference between people seriously taking two related religions than between members of the same religion with different attitudes towards it.

 

I won't be in any trouble with the church for it, but I may not be able to receive all my ordinances in this life...

 

^ Huh? What are these ordinances, and why would you not be able to receive them if you married a non-Mormon? Is it any non-Mormon, or would she have to be non-Christian? I know some may debate this, but generally speaking, the differences between sub-sets of the same religion is considerably less than the differences across different religions. Example: To be Christian, the main point is believing in the divinity of Christ - if you don't believe that, you aren't Christian.

 

Because She would have to be Mormon to go through the last of them with me...

 

No offense intended, dude, but that sort of sounds like some sort of racism to me.

In my case, as long as our personalities are compatible, I don't care about skin color or racial background. Hell, my ex was half-chinese, and I've also had a gf of spanish background. It's always interesting to learn more about other cultures. But I digress, this is about spouse selection. Personality matters the most, and I won't lie looks also do. But less than personality.

 

No family is perfect. That's just the perceived skeleton in my closet.

 

I wouldn't date or marry someone I didn't find attractive, but then again, attraction is in the eye of the beholder.

I know my family wouldn't care about race or religion; all that would matter would be that we were happy. And if that proved not to be the case, it wouldn't be my concern - it wouldn't be their choice to make, after all.

Unless ethnicity is the ONLY reason why not. Truthfully, it's never been an issue for me - if the connection is there, it's there, and everything else is secondary (if it ranks a mention at all). 'Nuff said, for me. I will concede, though, that it's usually more frequent that you're going to mesh better with someone who has a broadly similar background to your own.

 

That is definitely true. IMO (and forgive me if this sounds totally racist) if you are considering marrying someone who is of a different race, chances are there are going to be bigger differences among you than just skin color. At the very least, you are going to be very different culturally as well. Different races also have a higher chance of being different religions. There's a whole slew of other factors that come up when you consider different races. I'm not saying it can't work out, or that all of these factors will always exist, it just seems like finding compatibility with someone of a different race is less likely than with someone of the same race.

 

Ethnicity? Hell I've been around the world in my bedroom

Maybe it's because I'm from New Zealand where we have such a multicultural society. When it comes to race I really don't give a damn. If she's nice, pretty and treats me well I'll love her even if her skin is green.

Religion? Sure, I'd marry a Catholic, Muslim, Bhudist, Mormon, Shinto, Tao, Hindu - you name it - as long as they don't try to make me uphold any of their religious beliefs that I don't agree with. If they can live with that, I can live with them.

 

But that's the whole problem. Obviously, if religion is not something particularly important to either you or your partner, than it certainly isn't going to be a stumbling block in the relationship. What I, Gnarff, and others were pointing out is that to some people religion is very important, and they want their spouse to be practicing members of their faith. Having a spouse disinterested in their religious beliefs is something that some people are unable to tolerate. They want a spouse who not only takes their beliefs seriously, but also believes and practices the same faith.

So the whole "don't make me uphold any of the religious beliefs that I don't agree with" statement simply isn't going to work with them. Maybe YOU wouldn't have a problem with it, but SHE very well may. The same thing can go for the ethnicity arguement. While I think it's great that you are so open in who you are willing to form a relationship with, what you think doesn't matter a bit unless the person you are with shares the same thoughts. So even for you, ethnicity, race or religion can become a stumbling block in the formation of a relationship, even though you would not be the source of the problem.

 

Personality's a big issue, when it comes to attractiveness. So no matter how physically attractive someone moight be, I wouldn't marry her if she wouldn't have the right kind of personality.

My standards are that she should be smart, educated and have at least some knowledge and interests concerning feminism. Other than that, I can and will compromize.

Of course I'm falling in love with almost anyone pretty enough, but I also fall out of love very quickly if she seems to be an airhead.

Ethnicity doesn't count in my books, but getting really to know someone who doesn't speak my language or english fluently is a major problem.

 

@Abomination:

Question is, with a Catholic, what would you do before you married?

@NonSequitur: I meant it as in people shouldn't be looked down upon for choosing to stick with their own circle of extended family, friends, neighbours or whatever environment for finding a potential spouse. There is a lot of danger in preaching anti-racism in this context because people may be expected to give in more easily to people of different races, especially ones (previously) considered inferior by some. Imagine a white girl asked out by a black guy. It would be sort of indelicate to say she doesn't like black guys, but she shouldn't be expected to prove otherwise. As in give in just a little and give him "something" before moving on. People's preferences may be bizarre, but I believe bad things happen when peer pressure comes in the way of choosing a mate. All sorts of playing a person's pity to make refusal harder. Dramatism, begging, suicide threats, hiding behind race, ethnicity, religion, disability or any other victim or minority status... that's wrong.

Personally, I don't care about race. I don't see people as white or black or Asian or anything. I see John, Jack, Mary, Tom, Alice, (won't embarrass mysef by making hilarious attempts at citing Asian names ). Of course I notice race or even ethnicity and it's more than likely to pop up in conversation, but it's not like a different species or I don't know what.

Religion is a different thing because sometimes they may conflict and if I can't get a sacramental Catholic marriage, I don't go there, as well as if someone's moral demands oppose my own, and obviously, worshipping evil deities or forces or some slutty gods is not quite what I like in people, but it's more of a general compatibility issue than religious discrimination. I could easily show you a Catholic in good standing whose beliefs would be incompatible with mine (e.g. I consider non-exclusive dating relationships immoral, repulsive and a no-go, and being a more moral and pious person than I am still wouldn't fix it), or a compatible agnostic or atheist.

In case of great and overwhelming differences, people should rather think if they really need to be in a relationship rather than good friends, instead of rushing head-on and proving their ability to be tolerant and open-minded.

 

/me congratulates dmc