POLL: SW A New Hope Classic Moments

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I have to say, one of the sweet parts was where Anakin was wielding two lightsabers.

They totally should have drawn that out longer.

And they've got Ray Parks working on the swordfighting scenes, which is a massive improvement over E6's Mark Hammil. Ray Parks is the sole reason why all the duel scenes ROCK!

But, I'll say this then I'm gonna be quiet.

You hire actors. You pay them, and you've got to put up with their egos. If it was me, I'd sure as hell make sure they worked.

Episode1 for instance. Dude, there were like, NO pauses between dialogue interactions. It was like "Howdoyouthinktheviceroywillnegotiate?Thesefederationtypesarecowards,thenegotiationswillbeshort."

Now, if you ever go back and watch "Schindler's List" or "Rob Roy", or a couple of the other Liam moviez, you'll notice this is a pattern of the actor. He does this in about 60% of his scenes. But now, every other actor was going it too in E1, which leads me to believe Lucas was telling everyone to "Hurry UP!" with their lines, so he could cram 4.5hours of movie into 3.

You just don't do that. You make the longer movie, and cut it down to the size you want. Then you release the extra 1.5hours you have on 3 seperate dvd "collector's editions", just like everyone else does.

In Episode4, for example, just after they get out of the Death Star, and Han/Leia are arguing. There's pauses between the dialogues. When you're sitting down in the audience, it makes you wonder if this whole story really did take place.

There needs to be pauses between dialogue interactions. It's a fundamental rule of human interaction. Whether you're watching "Friends", or the "Girlz Go Wild: Marti Gras", you're supposed to think, even if it's for 400 milliseconds; that .4sec counts. Even if they are Jedi, and can see into the near future, you still have to tell the story to us poor foolz.

It is critical that you wait until someone hits "return"...

 

I hope Lucas completely remakes Episodes 4-6 after he's done with 3. The older movies may have had somewhat better acting, but the battles, particularily the lightsaber duels, are so lame compared to the nifty fighting scenes in the new ones. And the special effects were really limited and dated by todays standards. Putting the two trilogies together, it's hard to believe they are the same series.

 

That's just silly. Remake 3-6. Are you insane? After the fiasco that was ep 1-2, he could only ruin the (classic) next three were he to remake them.

Sorry, Big B, but you sound like my thirteen year old cousin who tells everyone who doesn't like her ****ty poetry that "they just don't understand it." In I and II the acting SUCKED, the plots were all over the place, every time I look at Vader now I'm going to see that whining little brat ("Boo-hoo, I even killed the women and children.."), and Lucas has yet to realize in spite of all his experience that the technology to set computer generated humanoids (That infinitely annoying Jar-Jar Binks, Anakin flopping around on that herbivore in those campy, god-awful "romance" scenes) against a real setting simply does not yet exist. They do not look real. They look silly.

You can dissect it any way you like, B. The fact is that none of us would have bothered shelling out the money for II if IV-VI hadn't seduced us in our youth.

 

What you on about? ALL of SW EpIV is THE classic moment!

Oh lookie! An R2-D2 that's been done in.

I like R2-D2.

 

I think some of you are engaging in "selective perception". Do you really think the overacting of Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, and Mark Hamil is sooo much better? What about that CHEEZY "romance" between Luke and Leia? What was that? That was incest, man! Of course, they didn't know it was at the time, but still... It was a cheap plot device that Lucas threw in to make you want to see episode 6! And that "there is another..." business? What was that all about?

I don't think Anakin whined any more or less than Luke did. "I have to go save my friends! They're in trouble!".
"Luke, you must complete your training".
"No, they're in trouble, I can feel it! I have to save them".

And Leia's love/hate thing with Han was a little overdone, in my opinion.

The Ewoks were just as annoying as Jar Jar, if not more so. Jar Jar was incredibly stupid, don't get me wrong, but to believe those lame little teddy bears wind up doing anything other than being scrapped off the bottom of a stormtrooper boot is beyond words.

For the record, I think both series are about the same as far as story, plot, etc; kind of cheesy, but good fun. I don't think the people who say Lucas "destroyed" the franchise have much of a point. Of course that is just my opinion, which is definitely in the minority here.

Remaking episodes 1-3: I seriously dobut Lucas will do it, but he has already said that he is happier with episodes 1 and 2 because they were closer to his vision than the older movies, with thier technological limitations, ever were.
So he is going to go back and add a lot of new scenes to the older movies to make it a little truer to what he had in mind. He mentioned in particular the lightsaber battles between Luke and Vader, the final showdown with the emperor, and the Battle of Hoth.

What would be interesting is if "digitized actors" will become possible by then. That is, I believe that in the near future, actor's physical appearances and voices will be able to be digitized and controlled entirely through a computer. They will take a series of pictures of an actor, digitize them, and animate them in a movie as if the actor was being filmed, but it will be indistinguishable from the real thing. In reality, all the actor does is get photographed.
Say they do this to Mark Hamil and insert extra lightsaber fighting scenes with him...even close ups and such. There probably would not be new dialouge or any major plot changes, just enhancements to some of the fighting. Wouldn't that be cool?

[ September 18, 2002, 04:31: Message edited by: Nutrimat ]

 

I know its slightly off topic but also on topic, I must say that i love the tune where Luke is looking at the twin sun set and also at other parts of the film ... it gives me goose bumps ... man i love the music! Absolute classic classical stuff!

 

Ok, before this topic is lost to the ancient depths of SP post pages I wanted to get in a few more points.

First off I thank everyone who voted for doing so. Second, in having a poll about the classic movie, we have brought up the grand topic of new vs. old. During the past week and a half I have been considering a lot of points. Here's what I have realized:

The Star Wars films, and the Indiana Jones films (since they were mentioned) are all about fun. If you can't have fun watching them, then what is the point?

Now, some say that the parallels displayed in AOTC are out of place. Not really, we know that both George and Steven have used parallels before in the Indiana Jones series. And not just the reference to the Ark of the Covenant in The Last Crusade (which was well done of course.)

Parallels between all three:
- Indiana searches for a lost artifact (the twist in The Last Crusade is that real "lost artifact" Indy is searching for is his father, more so than the Holy Grail, that's an added bonus )

- There's one main female role, and Indy will have a romance interest with her

- Some type of strange ceremony occurs and Indy finds himself in the thick of it (Raiders: the opening of the Ark, Doom: the Thuggee sacrificial ceremony, Crusade: The Nazi book burning in Berlin)

- Indy always learns that human life and experience have more weight than ancient artifacts and their powers or value.

- Snakes, bugs, and rats respectively. Always hordes of some distateful creatures in an elaborate scene.

Parallels between Raiders and Doom:

- Indy shoots the swordsmen in Raiders, a similar scene occurs in Doom when he tries it again, but is out of bullets. (The closest scene in Crusade to this is when Indy fires the German gun - don't know which, I'm not a gun person - and the bullet shoots through three Nazis in a row.)

- Indy is in a fist fight with someone huge. (Nazi at air field in Raiders, and Miner Guard in Doom.)

- In a close fight, Indy uses something to bash over the head of his attacker/strangler. In Raiders it was a whiskey bottle at Marion's bar, in Doom it was an urn over his would-be assassin's head during his first night's stay at Pankot Palace.

- Let her go or I destroy the <insert Ark of the Covenant or Sankara stones here> scene

Parallel between Doom and Star Wars:

The nightclub at the beginning of Doom is clearly labeled: Club Obi Wan.

Parallels between Crusade and the Indy series in general:

- In the opening sequence we learn 1) why Indy is terrified of snakes 2) where Indy got his whip 3) Where Indy got the scar on his chin from 4) where Indy get his infamous fedora.

Parallels between Crusade and Raiders:

- The aforementioned "It's the Ark of the Covenant" "Are you sure?" "Pretty sure" scene.

- Outsiders contact Jones to go on a mission for them. (The US government in Raiders, and Donovan in Crusade) [Side note: Julian Glover, the man who played Donovan in Crusade is General Veers from the Empire Strikes Back. For all you so called "Empire fans" that's the General who led the AT-AT walkers at the Battle of Hoth.]

- Indy riding a horse against the Nazis and their tanks/trucks in the desert.

- The old opening closed curtains/house is really a garage trick. (Indy drives the truck containing the Ark into one of these to hide from the Nazis. And Marcus runs for safety onto a truck that is really operated by the Nazis and is subsequently captured.)

These are the ones that are the most obvious and come to mind. Note that they are not intrusive and link the series together. The parallels in Star Wars are no different.

And for the record I am very excited about hearing of an Indiana Jones IV.

*** Change of direction here. ***

Now let's compare the SW romance scenes to a serious sorce and a less serious source: Casablanca and the Indy series.

"Here's looking at you, kid." - Rick (Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca) to his love Ilsa (Ingrid Bergman) 4 times in the movie. A line that would no doubt be deemed today as "chessy" were it to be debuted in today's times.

It's not really fair to compare a film classic such as Casablanca and a fun film like Star Wars. But what I don't get is the romance is "cheesy" to many in Star Wars, but perfectly acceptable to many in Casablanca - a film hailed by many as the best movie ever. I agree it *is* a good film. But excuse Star Wars for not being made when film was getting big. That doesn't mean it's no good.

Consider the following dialouge between Ilsa and Rick during a "romance" scene in Casablanca:

"Say why don't we get married in Marseilles?" - Rick

"That's too far ahead to plan." - Ilsa

"Yes, I guess it is a little too far ahead. Well, let's see. What about the engineer? Why can't he marry us on the train?" - Rick

"Oh darling!" - Ilsa

Suddenly Ilsa turns away and starts to cry.

"Well, why not? The captain on a ship can. It doesn't seem fair that... Hey, hey, what's wrong kid?" - Rick

"I love you so much, and I hate this war so much. Oh it's a crazy world. Anything can happen. If you shouldn't get away, I mean, if, if something should keep us apart, wherever they put you and wherever I'll be, I want you to know..." - Ilsa

She can't go on. She lifts her face to his. He kisses her gently.

"Kiss me. Kiss me as if it were the last time." - Ilsa

He looks into her eyes, then he does kiss her as though it were going to be the last time. Her hand falls to the table and knocks over a glass.

End of scene.

Hot diggity dog. Would anyone explain to me in general, how this is any different from the romance scenes in AOTC? And don't give me that crap about Portman being monotone and dry most of the time. Hello? Humphrey Bogart as Rick? Very monotone. And very exceptable for the role. Did it every occur to you that Padme's character should be portrayed as a monotone, boring Senator of the Old Republic at times? She's stiff and it takes Anakin to unravel her. We haven't even seen Episode III yet. We have no idea what direction Lucas is taking us with Natalie's character. Talk about jumping the gun.

"But Master Big B. Classic movies romances are one thing. Star Wars is another."

"No, no different! Only different in your mind."

"I don't believe."

"That is why you fail."

Lucas pays homage to classic romance and gets criticised for it. As C-3PO says, "How typical."

Now let's compare Raiders of the Lost Ark to Star Wars. From a lot of complaints about AOTC, it seems people think humor should not be in love scenes. Hello? Marion and Indy on the ship in Raiders. Where she turns the mirror and you can hear Indy howling. And then the whole, "Well where does it hurt?" "It hurts here, here, and here" bit. And then just like that, Indy falls asleep. It's great, I have no problem with it. Neither does Steven Speilburg, as in an interview he has said that is one of his favorite scenes in Raiders. But add a little humor in AOTC, Anakin talking about "aggressive negotiations", Anakin getting jealous like a little boy when Padme talks about an old boyfriend, or Anakin riding the Shaak and playing hurt in the meadow, and everyone gets their lightsaber in a knot. Please people, who are you trying to kid? Knock it off already.

Then there's all the humor, too much to list between Willie Scott and Indy and Short Round in Doom. Then there's humor of both father and son in love with the same woman in Crusade. "I'd just as soon kiss a Wookie!" In Empire Strikes Back. The list goes on and on. But suddenly, as I said, people get their lightsabers in a knot when it comes to the prequels.

And not just love scenes, people complain that C-3PO's humor during the battle on Geonosis is uncalled for. Man that really gets my lightsaber in a knot. I like C-3PO even more now than I did before thanks to AOTC, thank you very much. Oh and I guess when the villager in Raiders, falls onto the windshield of the Nazi truck, while Indy is driving during the elaborate chase sequence - I guess that is uncalled for too. Take out the Nazi soldier laughing because he sees Indy getting his face shoved into the periscope in Crusade. That's just "uncalled" for. We might as well edit out the part where Willie calls out to Indy saying "This is the night, where I slip out of Indiana Jones' fingers" while he is being strangled and grasping at the door.

And Jar Jar. He's hardly liked. I guess we'll scrap C-3PO, Chewbacca, Marcus Brody, and Short Round while we're at it. What was the pickpocket doing in Casablanca? Get him out of there!

As I said before, and this poll proves it. Star Wars is about fun. No need to pretend it's not just because it's not exactly panning out the way you've envisioned it. There's only one George Lucas, and Star Wars is his baby.

[ September 30, 2002, 23:07: Message edited by: Big B ]

 

I'm crapping my pants here! I don't know what to say. Struck dumbfounded again by Big B's vast knowledge of Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and the like. Fabulous read. Probably the most interesting thing I've read in a while.

 

Now, i'm not a massive follower of SW but i love to watch the films (well, 4,5 and 6), so the point i am about to make may be quite out of date.

That said, I felt quite sad though when i learnt that the storyline for the film version of Episode 3 is going to be dramatically "Childified". That is, more watchable for children than it otherwise would have been.

By this, i mean it won't be as dark. So i was told, all the remaining Jedi are not to be killed by the Sith as per the book, but instead are to die off during the interim period between Episode3 and A New Hope so as to make the film more enjoyable for the younger viewer.

I'm all for introducing new age groups into an ongoing saga such as star wars but changing the whole plot is going a bit too far.

 

Actually Lucas keeps saying no one will like Episode III because it will be so dark and generally not so good for the "good guys". Ian McDiarmid, the guy who plays Palpatine's character (since ROTJ) thinks the opposite. He believes that the "darkness" of Episode III will be what most people love. I know I fit in the latter category.

I mean no, it's not going to be violent bloodshed left and right. But it will be darker, and I expect it to rival Empire Strikes Back. In fact, to give it a "darkness" range, I think it will be somewhat darker than Empire Strikes Back, but not as dark as Temple of Doom - which spawned the PG-13 rating.

Each prequel movie has been like removing a layer. On the surface, everything is rosy. But the core is rotted out. There's a Phantom Menace, deep within. By the time of Attack of the Clones, more good is stripped away and darkness is rising. By the time of Episode III, the rosiness is out the window and darkness triumphs.

A New Hope continues the darkness, but a spark of light begins to shine as well. In Empire Strikes Back the spark nearly gets put back out as the Empire retaliates with an iron fist. And finally in Return of the Jedi, the spark of light has grown, learning from past defeats and victories and is now ready to challenge the darkness once and for all.

 

About the Indy 4, man, I almost loose hope that it will ever come. I read about it probably late last year or early this year. The news then was they wanted the 4 big names, namely: Lucas, Spielberg, Ford and Connery, to be involved in the 4th series. And that made it somewhat impossible... budget-wise and that Ford is getting too old. Glad to know that it's pushing through.

On with the topic.
Regarding episode 4. This is a real classic. Before that movie was released, Lucas was just another young director. What I'm about to say actually came from Sir Alec Guiness' interview (after SW won in the Grammy). Lucas approached him for Obi-wan's role, and gave him the script. At that time Guiness was already one of the most respected actors in the world. His initial reaction was a young director with a sci-fi movie is not going to be a good movie. But he didn't turned Lucas down but went on to read the script (probably to have a reason to turn it down). He loved the script and the rest was history.

I love all episodes but have some irks with episodes 1 and 2.

For episode 1, Jar-jar, to me, was totally useless... story-wise. He's more for capturing a wider audience, such as kids and those who are not really into sci-fi. In short, he's just for laughs (but I wasn't amused) and marketing strategy (he did sold quite a lot of action-figures and etc.). Maybe you could reason that he help Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan to reach Boss Nass and Queen Amidala's palace. But the way I see it, the Jedi knights can accomplish those without Jar-jar.

For episode 2, watching Yoda fight with lightsaber!!! I simply could not explain how I felt about that scene. My jaw just dropped, I was dumbfounded. I don't know whether I was going to laught at it or to be awed by it. Was it a brilliant move or a stupid one, I don't know. It is something I never expected and am still trying to convince myself that it was in the movie. It is a disturbing scene to me so to say.

[ October 01, 2002, 10:51: Message edited by: nior ]

 

On the note of Yoda in a lightsaberfight... I remember, years ago, when friends and I were ensnared by SW for the first time... I rememeber how we pondered about Yoda and lightsabersm seeing as he was shorter than Lukeäs saber... it was a fine age, us eishing to be Jedi and enjoying the wonders...

Of course, I was revealed a darksider even then...

Ara
(Got Force?)