POLL: What do you consider cheating?

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Depends on the nature of the flirting Tassadar. Some people can flirt to 'line guys/girls up' for future reference. A phone number here, a phone number there all while you're still attached to someone.

[ November 01, 2004, 00:45: Message edited by: Abomination ]

 

I think this entirely depends on what type of "pie" we're talking about.

 

There are varying definitions for love out there? A normal definition and something else? Didn't know that. I always assumed that love was universal and all-embracing. Some principle existing in its own right, independent of human perception. Is this not so?

In other words, I'm on joacqins side here, sorry pac man. I certainly cannot feel loved if I withhold such crucial information from my beloved. I want to be accepted with all my flaws, thoughts, ideals - if I only show what I want to show, how can my love really mean me?

Aldeth: was that your attempt at a Splunge impersonation?

 

@Darkthrone - it was my attempt at humor, however crude that may be. I do not consider it a Splunge impersonation as it lacks the usual wit we see from his comments, plus his are usually a hell of a lot funnier than that. I can try anyway.

BTW - I agree with your premise and your thoughts concerning pac man, yet I must however, reserve judgement. As pac man has clearly indicated, he is not giving us the entire story. Though it may be unlikely, it may be that the part of the story he does not wish to divulge represents extenuating circumstances that make his actions less wrong (for lack of a better term).

 

Aldeth, don't hide your light under a bushel (got that out of a dictionary for idioms - sounds terrible...). It made me smile and I would have attempted something similar had I seen it on time.

You might be right in your assessment of pac man's motives. I gave the whole issue a long and hard thinking some years ago. During my time at university I was in a situation akin to pac man's. My girlfriend did cheat on me several times - and told me all about it each time. I loved her, so I forgave her.

On the other hand, I was no saint as well. I did cheat on her time and again. However, I loved her. So I forgave me. I didn't need to tell her, because I was sure my feelings towards her hadn't been affected - things only would have been complicated. Or so I thought. And I was conviced of it.

I kept this attitude until I couldn't overlook the fissures in our relationship any longer. Did I really love her? I certainly had no complete respect for her. Nor did she respect me to the fullest. I felt superior to her, because I wasn't prone to emotional stress - I didn't suffer because of a bad consciousness. Is that a sign of love?

Never.

*sigh*

Well, whatever. I'm more mature now.

Hah!

 

Well spoken. I have to say, if I had the guts, and I knew Tal wouldn't hunt me down and kill me, I'd post a "what's your favorite type of pie" poll in the whatnots area, with of course an option relevent to my insinuation above.

I also agree that age is very important when considering these things. I have noticed such about myself as well. Not that I cheated on women in the past, but I found that I was easier to break up with women when I was younger. Probably because I wasn't really in love although I thought differently at the time. I think as we age we gain a greater respect for the feelings of others. The only reason I can think for this is that a greater range of life experiences allows us to have empathy for others, as it is more likely we have been placed in a similar situation.

 

i can't help to think are you in a project or something?


no aldeth, it was to chevaliar since he is the law student here, no?

[ November 02, 2004, 10:27: Message edited by: teekc ]

 

@ teekc - is your post in reference to mine? If it is, then you have to speak more plainly, as I don't understand what you mean, so I can't answer your question.

 

Hmmm... Quite a large number of "depends" in the making out question, and more than for sex or petting, so I understand permission from the partner isn't really the factor. I can see someone not requiring fidelity from the partner, but I don't really see anyone saying "OK, you can make out, but sex is a no-no". So, in what circumstances is making out not cheating?

 

For me is simple: don't do what you don't want someone else do to you.

 

I thought making out and flirting was one and the same. I put depends on there, as I know I would continue flirting with my friends. Friends I know I'll never have anything to do with that way. Of course, it does depend in that I would have to be considerate of my partner as well.

Anyway, you don't cheat on someone you love. If you have a relationship in which both parties agree that a certain loose-minded attitude is acceptable (pair switching etc, trying out things that aren't normal) then it's a different matter. Then, it wouldn't be cheating. Cheating on someone and then running back to them equals loving yourself, and loving the attention and the safety that person gives you. Not telling them only makes things easier on yourself and removes the chance of paying for the consequences of your own actions, which again comes from loving yourself.

Certainly I believe that strong affection can come in many different forms. But as said, you need to find a person suitable for you in case your view differs too much from the norm. Everyone can see what's wrong with a relationship where person 'A' is everything to person 'B', but person 'B' is just one of many and a place to sleep in for person 'A'.

This poll was a good idea though. Surprisingly many openly admit how twisted their views are. And knowing how many people succesfully lie to themselves, the amount of cheaters and potential cheaters is about what I'd expect this day and age.

I guess the poll would need an additional question determining wether the questions were asked of a normal (or not so normal anymore) person considering a normal relationship, a "different" person considering a normal relationship, or a "different" person considering a "different" relationship. A lousy way to say it I know. Simply put, what I mean is do you consider cheating from the viewpoint of your partner, or from your own viewpoint? Here we can also ask, are you capable of loving another more than you love yourself? Does, or should that kind of love even exist?

As a conclusion I'll tell my views on this 'love' stuff:

I don't believe nearly all of us people are even able to love another. Love does not make compromises. It is that fantasy out of a book that is completely one-dimensional and only works when it is absolutely unconditional, and puts the interest of the person you love way before your own. Anything else is not love. It may be affection, strong affection even, but not love. And truly, this affection that enables many people to get along with numerous other people is mistaken for love all the time. But that real love can only exist between a few people possessing a certain type of personality. Love, is something that overrides logic and natural instincts. Something that overrides all reason, egoism and survival. Some might call that naivé. I call that honesty. And fantasy.

Most people on this planet, including me, have never felt love nor been loved. Motherly and fatherly love, certainly (I would hope at least). But that takes a different form and far less luck than the love of a lover and a partner in life.

 

Tricky distinction, I know. However, when making the poll, I didn't really stick to just one of those views. I'm not a big fan of anything close to double standards, so I sort of forced the answering person to apply the same standards to him or herself and the partner. And when asking if something was cheating or not, I didn't mean acceptable, permissible, normal. I meant cheating or not. However, in the question "is cheating permissible in any circumstances", I meant whatever the person considered cheating without going into what it was.

I don't know if any of the feelings I've ever had for a girl or woman could be classified as true love, but even if the only thing linking me with the woman were friendship, I still wouldn't cheat. If I don't want to be faithful to that person, then I shouldn't be with that person. And if I want to be faithful, I am.

As for flirting, I pretty much share your attitude. Nothing wrong about innocent flirting with friends, which is kind of a joke by nature, anyway. Nothing wrong about exchanging a couple of compliments in a courteous conversation. It's natural that people meet people, even if sometimes it leads to getting a new relationship. After all, however, if I weren't the right man for my girl, I'd rather she were happy with someone else than unhappy with me. Still, there are some borders and I guess making and accepting advances is a good description. So far as I go, girls who did that are exes now. When you lie sick in your house and your girlfriend fools around with jocks, jumps on their laps and starts sweet talk, your views on flirting take a certain adjustment... Same if you discover that the woman who chatted with you "like that" had a husband or steady boyfriend. There are some borders that shouldn't be crossed. As I said somewhere above, they are different for different people and probably different for each couple, but they are there. Even if it's too random and impersonal to make classic cheating (classic cheating being having a side-affair or one night stand or some such), loose conduct is still sort of cheating on the partner.

[ November 02, 2004, 17:44: Message edited by: chevalier ]