POLL: What to do with Robe of Vecna?

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Send me through PM which mage or Lich you think to be behaving not appropriately and I will check his/her script separately and will let you know the result. Thank you.

 

Fel: please notice that I used "an author", not Sikret.
I referred to your #2 here:

E.g. a newly added item could be removed from an improved enemy's (who can be fought in an improved battle) inventory, and added to a store. So the improved battle could be added to a different component (tactical component), while the item would be in another component. This would be an artificial way to remove the dependency -- with an obvious result. Do you get the point?

On the other hand, even if they were independent, this is still a wrong approach:

For one "little" reason: the author decides. He or she can listen to player feedback, or not. It's very sad that on certain IE forums, author freedom became something that needs to be condemned if it doesn't follow certain guidelines. Absolutely incorrect. If something can be condemned, it's the behaviour of those modders/players (not you Fel -- just to assure you won't misinterpret it) who imply that those authors should be despised who don't act according to what the public expects. People have one (or rather two) way to express their negative opinion: by telling it politely, and by not downloading the mod. I don't want to hijack this thread about IA, so I won't detail my point any further. I guess it's obvious to everyone.

 

I agree with Baronius. A player is always free. He is free to play or not to play a mod. Modders, on the other hand, are also free to make their mods in the best way that makes sense to them. So much was a general point (not paritcularly about IA).

As for IA, as I said before, Felinoid's 99% guess about his situation 2 was correct. IA's different components depend on each other.

An item triggers a quest, a quest leads to an enhanced battle, the enhanced enemy has an item, the item triggers another creature to spawn, the creatures says something about another item, the other item is with another enhanced enemey, now all these items can be used to forge a new item etc...

Dividing these events and items into separate components doesn't make sense to me. The same is true about the tweaks and fixes I have applied to the game, because I have written the creatures' scripts based on the changes and tweaks I have applied to the game.

[ October 19, 2006, 15:24: Message edited by: Sikret ]

 

I take it is much as a book. By reading a chapter or the whole book, the experience is different. But I know that argument is hard to use here, hence I prefer to let the author decide what should be done. I as player can allways decide wich mod to install BTW This has been discussed - I think to remember - at either G3 or BWL before. Different people different opinions.

Back to topic:

It seems to be a very "laden" issue with RoV. Perhaps the time is to do something dramatic? (read: remove RoV to a different location or split it in parts wich can be melted together like other items)

 

Why mess with the original "classic" items? And then add them to IA wich doesn't let me choose do I want them or not. IA already comes with custom weapons so why not just concentrate on those? That would allow me to just not use them. I love to use those old trusted items, FoA, RoV, SotM and so on and I really don't like to find any of them changed. That's just my 2 cents.

 

Well for instance it's just one of the ideas with a mod. Then You can chose to install or not. "Classic" item sometimes just need to be adjusted.

 

I know. In fact, I was careful to point out that it was only the post before that which didn't. This was just to clear up a possible misunderstanding for others who don't know the situation.

On the author freedom issue, yes, they've got complete freedom to make their mod however they want. It's not like anyone has the power to make them change it. But when a mod is for the players, ignoring the players' desires for no reason at all (NOT the situation with IA) would be...well, let's just say that even freedom of speech means freedom to be a d*ck with what you say. And of course the player is still free to not download the mod, or provide feedback and be ignored (on the sit #1 assumption), but how much good does it do to make a mod that noone likes, when a simple change that affects nothing would balloon that number, making more people happy? (Again, NOT the situation with IA.)

I have to say I agree with this sentiment. When a mod is necessarily one component, as this one is, you have to be very careful what you screw with. An 'improvement' like this can be the straw that breaks the camel's back for some players. My vote goes toward not changing the robe AT ALL, though an increase in price might be appropriate given its power.

 

Allready implemented in IA3. And it's good.

Well we just have to disagree, but in the end Sikret is the one to decide what to do. Let's wait and see

 

I think Vecna should be revised as follows:

1. casting time for all spells set to 1
2. Improved Alacrity when worn
3. After a spell is cast, spellbook is refreshed as if caster had rested a full night

To offset the advantages, AC should be 6 (vs 5), and charisma reduced by 1

 

Isn't that a bit heavy? I would go for a multi C/M then

 

Of course it's heavy; I think that was the point. Splunge is known around here for being...well, it's hard to describe, but I believe the preferred term is "cheeky".

 

I'm sure that authors are well aware of this. If an author makes a decision, he undertakes the possible consequences. I agree that it's good if more players are happy. On the other hand, I strongly condemn when certain modders give hints how to hack someone's mod to change on its use without the author's consent just because it would make more players happy. I also condemn when a good modder is tried to be mired just because his decisions e.g. aren't friendly to a certain group of players (Often this is "decided" by certain modders, and not by the players themselves, but let's keep out 'politics' , even in any general form, as you suggested.) All in all, I think that the most important is good communication between players and mod makers, to respect each other, and to strive for finding the golden mean, to satisfy everyone.

I think 1., and especially 3., are too strong. I would just decrease the casting time, but not as much as originally in RoV. Improved Alacrity sounds a good idea to me.

 

...I was going to argue this on a public/private basis, but then the phrase "without the author's consent" hit me right between the eyes. It's still up to the author themselves if they want to give private instructions on how to circumvent things in their mod. And of course up to them to be tyrannical with their mod if they wish, but...meh. I don't think modders who would actually do that would be on the public modding scene very long anyway, and I haven't ever seen anyone that fits that extreme.

Aye. It's a cliche for a reason: Communication really is the most important part of ANY relationship, whether it's intimacy with someone you love, or even just a business relationship.

 

I thought that splunge was just joking, wasn't he? This thread is started to make a decision to decrease the robe's power (or at least to make it harder to possess) not to increase its power.

 

I say put it in Jon's 'quarters' in Spellhold. It would make a lot of sense being there.

And NO it is not overpowered compared to some of the uber weapons etc.

 

Joking? I think not.

I believe that the changes I was suggesting would essentially give a mage the ability to cast any spell from his/her spellbook 10 times (or maybe 5) per round (it wouldn't matter whether a spell was initially memorized or not, since you could simply swap spells at will and have them available after the next casting).

This would be sooo cool. But without the -1 to charisma, it would be a tad overpowered.

 

Ah! I had forgotten the charisma penalty.

Yes, without the -1 penalty to charisma, it would have been almost identical with Ctrl-Y. As you said, a tad overpowered! But the charisma penalty seems to balance everything.

Now, do you want me to make your suggested robe for you or do you prefer to ctrl-Y everyone and use shadow keeper to apply the charisma penalty to your mage?

 

Might I recommend DOUBLING that CHA penalty!!

(...Pause for dramatic impact...)

Those are some halfway decent bonuses being granted here. But with such drawback added, casters will have a serious dillemma on their hands.

"Hmm. Beyond godlike casting powers vs. having to pay 127GP for those magical bullets instead of 125GP?"

I can name at least one player who'd be sticking with his trusty traveler's robe! Damn skippy!

 

That would be great if only single class Thieves with UAI could use it!

Robe of Vecna + Carsomyr... That would be awesome. Add an area of wild magic centered on the wearer for some extra fun.

 

I voted to remove it from the shop and place it in the inventory of a tough foe, but I think it should also be made weaker or removed from the game all together.