Racism and Refusing Services

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Gypo's aren't a community, or a race. They're just a group of parasites. I don't doubt that you get the occasional nice person, but they're still guilty by association in my book. Anyone with half a feeling of self respect would get out of that circle as soon as possible.

 

@ aldeth.

well you could look at it that way, or you could look at with a bit more realistic eyes. these are are stories told by people from different countries, one or two example pr country, where clearly the experience has made some kind of impact, probably because its out of the norm...


oh and any of does tricks would get you trouble here too, if you discreaminate against people on thier race, religion or sexual preference, your action falls under the racism paragraf (dont ask why sexual preference or religion falls under racism, my guess is it was easier to make one law then three).

 

Barmy, I just can't accept that.

and BTA, I'm sure there's nothing official about it, but all the same you won't get served if you aren't black. I have a feeling that they haven't been closed down because the barbeque is so good and many of their patrons are more than willing to pick some up for their non-black friends. I probably should have pointed out that my mother and her coworkers all work for the federal government and could easily have something done about it if they so chose to.

Ragusa, that menality isn't unique, though I'd never been directly told something like that I have been ignored or looked at with disdain as if I didn't belong. I went to a Cadillac dealership to take a look at a XLR and it took 20minutes before I had a salesperson out to help me. At the time I was the district manager for a Cingular Agent and making good money. I could afford the car, but got so mad that they looked at me like that, that I decided I was going to stick with my Trans Am and not worry with a luxurly vehicle if I was going to be treated in such a way. It's also happened at jewelry stores, clothing stores, and electronics stores. It's really rather ignorant. It's also the first thing good sales training teaches you not to do. keyword is good.

 

What do you mean you don't accept it. Do you actually know what pikeys are, and have you ever seen what they do an an area when they move there?

 

You are most likely correct. With such a small sample size it probably is not accurate to project a few isolated incidents to the population as a whole. I just thought it was strange that of all the stories presented, only one of them happened to be from the USA, and that's what I largely based my opinion on.

@ Everyone - While somewhat do you think that regions of the world with a high amount of diversity are more or less tolerant than regions with a lower amount of diversity?

 

it depends a lot on how the diverse groups interact. if they bottle up in ghettos, never interacting, then the area/country might be diverse but the different groups will most likely look down upon/fear/hate each other.

while if the people mix and blend and interacts i think thier will be more tolerance for differences

 

@Aldeth: they have to IF they live together and don't form close communities that don't interact and don't mingle.

I'm French and I'm of Middle Eastern origins (among others). I know I'm white/caucasian but I still don't look like the average French guy...
A few weeks back I wanted to renew my ID card and I was really annoyed when the civil servant barely glanced at me and asked me if I was born in France. Only because of my name and of my face. I resent that. I know for a fact that my French great grandfather fought during the Great War and lost two of his brothers for this country. It's very likely that back at the time of the Crusades I had ancestors on both sides. Nevertheless being catalogued as an alien in your own country is not something you can relish (I know I don't).

I'm a teacher and I only have one colleague who is of Middle Eastern origin. I know I belong to a minority and I decided long ago (when I was a teenager and when the police started to hassle me for no reason) that I would never try to conceal it.

I know of a family of Middle Eastern descent who actually changed their name to fit in because it was so much better for their business. I'd rather starve than change my name to make a living.

And to be "technical" I feel that Arabs (of Middle Eastern or North African origins) are teated in the same way Blacks and Asians are treated over here. The fact that you are "genetically caucasian" doesn't make any difference to racists (it's not just over here, after all in America they talk about "sand niggers").

If you look different then you are different.

 

'Pied noir' background?

 

I'd like to know what that guy said to make his appeal successful. Claiming that 'blacks hurt business' is hardly a good argument. Luckily, I have never had any or witnessed any encounters with racism.

 

Well, that was my point. I specifically included the part about people of Middle Eastern descent to be caucasian because I thought someone else would bring it up, and try to say that it can't be racism if everyone involved is caucasian. My point is exactly what you said - it can still be considered racism because there are obvious physical differences between the two populations, and those differences are why people will treat you differently.

 

I was in Honolulu and was refused service because I couldn't read the Japanese menu.

I was also once in Japan while in the Navy. Our ship pulled into a port that no US Navy ship had visited since the 40's. Numerous establishments had signs on the doors stating "No Sailors or Dogs Allowed." The Japanese are so subtle.

 

@Ragusa: No. "Pied noir" usually refers to the French population who had to leave Algeria when it ceased to be French (they were the French settlers who were born in Algeria but were of European origin eventhough most of them had been there for several generations).

@Aldeth: There are always differences between two individuals (except perhaps identical twins). It's all about what you said: the "obvious physical differences" ...which makes the all thing (i.e. racism) so utterly ridiculous.

 

Caradhras, that's why I asked.

 

I think Europe definitely has more racism than the US, but it can be hard to tell. In the US racism tends to be away from the towns and cities. Small rural areas are where you usually find it (but not always, of course). In Europe, it seems to be more in the cities, but I don't know how much of a sampling we have from the rural areas.

Also, which do you consider more diverse, Europe or the US? These days, its hard to tell. The US is bigger, with fewer people (I think) so you could make an arguement about density.

 

In the country people can be so bigoted. There is a sense of anonymity when you live in a big city.

I won't pretend to know much about the US but a friend of mine who lived in Georgia for a year told me that she had met a Jamaican girl there who had become her friend. She also told me that whenever they used to walk together or go to places together they would often hear comments from BOTH whites and blacks. That's certainly not something we are used to over here.

The fact that it can be less blatant doesn't mean it doesn't exist though.

 

Back home racism is, unfortunately, a bit too alive for my likings... I used to think Bulgaria is supposedly a tolerant country, but... well, there's a big but. There are minorities, like Armenians, Tatars Jews and a few others are, afaik, not really considered any different, but they are also quite rare and well-integrated.

Turks are the biggest minority and generally keep to a few regions, so most people don't have an issue with them aside from the odd rumor of an islamist organization trying to win converts. They have a party in parliament (which unfortunately has gotten in more scandals than all the others sans the nationalists combined) and have relatively little problems - or at least had, that was the case prior to the nationalist party entering parliament (ugh). I haven't heard of any cases of discrimination, although it doesn't mean there aren't any. Still, historical differences notwithstanding (Bulgarians have fewer reasons to like Turks than Irish-English imo), the minority is not oppressed in any way to the best of my knowledge, and there are representatives of it in most public spheres, particularly where their party holds sway. Pomaks are a strange case, but they stay in one region and don't really move along; also, afaik most Bulgarians think of them as Bulgarians and don't care that much. There is a big problem with gypsies/Roma, though, as there is a very high crime rate and some old prejudices with an unfortunate amount of truth in them. There was a scandal (well, at least it made the media) a few days ago when a group was not allowed to use a swimming pool even when they paid. Every now and then the nationalists snipe at them too... In fact our biggest "joy", the Ataka MEP, managed to get in big trouble with his own party after he insulted a Roma colleague in some of their internal debates. Frankly, this party is so bad that I would think they wouldn't last six months (they've had their infighting ever since they entered the parliament), but to my despair their electorate seems to be growing. Hardly a testament to the state of our other parties, alas.

Strangely enough, I've heard that while Bulgarians and Roma sometimes have problems and the nationalists have implied that the Roma serve Turkish interests, Turks and Roma really don't get along (at least in Bulgaria). I wonder if it's true. Anyone from Turkey care to comment?

Anyway, imo it's a bit strange - if you're black you will probable be treated better than if you're brown. Blacks are either athletes or foreign students, and few enough to be considered mostly exotic. Of course, imo a lot of parents wouldn't be very happy if they learn their daughter wants to marry an Ethiopian (mind you, I've seen a few mulatto kids in my hometown, so there are exceptions.

 

europe is sill not one country, so please stop the generalization, we dont even speak the same language in europe. and have you actually been in any european country or are you just asuming, couse it sounds like the last part.

and yes thier is roughly 2,5 hundred millions US citizens and some 8 hundred thousands(yea thousands as in millions ) europeans devided on numerous countries, each with its own unique culture and language...

[ March 19, 2007, 22:05: Message edited by: Equester ]

 

NOG, I'm sorryfor this, but I couldn't help it, I just laughed and squirted OJ out of my nose. I'm guessing you haven't been to very many big cities. In the big cities it's just as bad often time worse, just not always quite as blatantly out in the open out and about. Walk through a ghetto, or through a trailer park in a large city.

 

I know that I use the term Europe and European to mean all of the various countries on the continent. It isn't meant to be derogatory, there are just way too many countries to list them individualy.

 

That can't be right. The population of America is actually a little over 300 million. However, the population of Europe has to be much, much, much larger than 800,000. Heck, there are many European CITIES that exceed that population. Did you mean to say 800 million? Although that seems a bit too high... *shrug*. Still you couldn't possibly be suggesting there are only 800,000 people living in Europe.