Relationship Rant Thread #3

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Oh dear, not again. I seem to have read your PM and closed the window before typing the reply. Then no new PMs popping up when I opened the inbox. I need to give you my MSN info or something.

 

Its a freakin' box I'm taking her to...

But I think that you guys would reform your opinions (not to sound arrogant ) if you knew her... she isn't that kind of person. I wrote what was going through my head, and it is most likely me over thinking it. She talks about all of her friends with me, it just bothers me when she talks about him. Jealousy sucks, especially when it blows things out of proportions. I highly doubt she is cheating on me, but there is always a suspicion in my mind - I think she has felt kind of distant is because she is majorly stressed out with school right now.

And as for the other thing, about what she said... I found out, and it was really nothing she couldn't have told me, I don't see why she didn't.

In any case, I had just wanted to rant somewhere, I said what was on my mind, but I don't think she is cheating on me at all. I just don't get to she her that much (its been over a month since the last time I saw her outside of school), and I think that that, being tired, and just being a guy is blowing things out of proportions.

I'll keep you updated

EDIT: Yeah, I'm not going to worry about it too much, we're hanging out tomorrow, and I'll keep my eye out in the future, but I think everything is fine.

[ October 14, 2006, 01:48: Message edited by: Saber ]

 

Saber, you are partly right. Partly, in that we would reform our opinions if we knew her the way you do, which means if we were looking from the point of view of a guy in love with her.

You can deny a lot, but you can't deny she has told she would like to go with him but she won't because it would make you sad. Or that she's willing to trade your company for his, along with a better seat. Although I just wonder what's more important in that trade, the seat or his company. Either way it sucks. My girlfriend just wouldn't think about doing that and not just to me, but she wouldn't trade people for seats or switch companions like that. Your assessment is a product of your head, but the facts you cite are something that has happened for real unless you had been munching some bad mushroom.

I can tell you she most probably isn't cheating in a sexual way, although I don't think you'd be too happy to overhear one of their conversations. I may be wrong, but I think she's infatuated with him or at least likes him better than you but stays faithful to you. Either way, it sucks. And it sucks already if it just goes through her head. When it actually happens, it doesn't happen just because, but it happens because it had been going in someone's head before.

All in all, she's either selfish or infatuated with that guy. Or maybe both. I seriously suggest dumping her for any of these reasons. And I don't mean talking trash and telling her to go to hell. In fact, you could be nice and help her with that other guy. But the relationship had better come to an end, in my opinion. I doubt I would like to be friends with a girl anymore after she did something like that to me, let alone in a relationship.

 

My girlfriend and I fight and scrap to spend as much time TOGETHER as possible. I'd never cancel on anybody but even if I did the last person I'd change plans on would be my girlfriend.

I'd dump her in a heartbeat if she did that to me...

 

No, Chev, what I meant is that if you knew her as a person in general, I don't think you would say that. Although, I have yet to tell my friends (come monday, however, we'll see) how I feel, and I am sure they can shed some light considering they are my age and know her. I value your opinions, but most of you are bitter old men . No, but seriously, when you speak it is from your experience, and you are far older and have dealt with far more treacherous people. She can be a very bubbly (?) person, and she is very close with all of her friends, male or female. I think that we're all taking this into a different dimension.

And I know it sounds like I am in denial and stuff, but she has given me no reason to doubt her, just to be annoyed. And everything is perfectly fine between us.

And Abomination, she did not cancel with me, we are still going together.

 

Obviously you're the authority on the situation, just from what you've told us we smell a rat.

Till there is hard evidence of misdeeds I guess you have no grounds for breaking up with her, yet from what you've said I must warn you to not be surprised if (maybe when) she cheats on you.

 

Ah, well, young people do know best....

Anyway, we were all just talking based on the very small part of the overall picture that you gave us. But if you post in this thread, you've got to expect people to provide advice!

 

Hmmm...you speak harsh words, guys. Of course, it's wrong of her to want to give up a night with Saber for a better seat or being with the other guy. But women are weird creatures and it doesn't always mean there has to be cheating or dumping. They might reason in some weird way and do bizarre things while still loving you. It all depends on the two people involved. I still think you should straighten the situation out and talk to her about it, though, since it obviously bothers you and rightfully so.

 

Again, even if she intends no cheating or dumping, come on, just what kind of person loses her mind for a guy and keeps bugging her boyfriend about how great a guy her new infatuation is? What kind of person changes a previous concert arrangement just because better seats pop up? That's something you don't do to a stranger, let alone a friend, let alone boyfriend. To me, the rudeness and silliness of what she's doing is revolting. I don't really buy the, "going with the oh so great guy on a whim to the concert she's been planning with her boyfriend for months, for both the better seat and the other guy's company, and leaving him alone in the worse seat, and still loving the boyfriend," kind of vision. What kind of love is it, anyway, if she actually loves him? Love is gentle, love is kind, doesn't seek its own, endures all. We aren't saints ourselves but she's quite the opposite of this. She's dumping material because life with her is going to be one hell of strange. She isn't going to start being normal just like that.

 

It's so nice (and confronting me with my own gender, as well) to see that the women here talk so much less, but say so much more that I agree with...

I would get insecure, doubtful and anxious of my relation (if I had one), reading all the stuff that many (, but not all) males post here.

 

I hope she just wants the seats, because it is her favorite band (tenth row) and she's never seen them live before, and not wanting to be with the other guy. Thats what I am confused about.

Chev, it is not that bad. She has talked about him before in regards to her trip to Israel (which I can understand if she was excited for... again there is the confusion of whether she was having a good time with him or in Israel with a hundred other kids.), and this thing has only been brought up twice... I think that my initial reaction (and subsequently yours) has been embellished far too much by (natural) suspicion.

HB, I put the little wink to imply I was joking. I highly value all of your opinions, but I think that they have been slightly biased (as Chev pointed out) because of negative relationships in the past. I was expecting advice, but the stuff I got seemed way to harsh... I was looking more for stuff liek Uytuun's suggestion.

And just to clear things up, she has not broken up plans with me to go sit with the other kid. We are still going together.

 

Considering that the Saber situation is settled, we can continue this sort of situation as general discussion. I'll open the dance.

I agree 100% with Chev here.

Ditto.

Indeed. If the said concert was planned for a long time, then swapping plans and going with a new infautuation on a whim is simply maddening. I'm not one to lose my cool easily, but such a situation would make me snap and give in to anger quicker than you can say F***.

Uytuun is the less jaded of us all.

 

Even if it's just the seats, it's still confusing. Maybe she wants to see them so damn well much and she can't really from your already booked seats, whereas she actually can from his. Unless we're talking about some cultural difference mitigating it, I consider it quite rude anyway. You're different from how we are, but that's something we don't do to strangers. Except the ill-mannered people. Well, you have ill-mannered people everywhere.

That's two doubts, Saber. The chance you're making it all up is falling. Don't get me wrong. I've seen friends becoming so close as to kiss on lips for hello, sit in each other's lap for photos or when there's not enough sitting space, hug for a long time, pick up and spin around while hugging, go to dancings together... all sorts of stuff that wet blanket puritans would kill you socially for (obviously talking about male-female friendships and definitely not between two guys). But that's more like people becoming sort of "adopted" siblings or cousins. In case of your girlfriend, I have doubts. I think she isn't cheating or even thinking about it, but I think she has some infatuation she doesn't know how to handle. It's normal for girls her age, but this doesn't mean you're going to be happy with her.

You might have exaggerated a bit and I might have been worrying for you, but it's only so little that we could have stretched it. We didn't take anything out of thin air.

Besides, I doubt she's ignorant of how her behaviour makes you think and I doubt she sees your well-being on the same level as hers (ideally, you both should see the other one's well-being above your own, but an equal and fair exchange is a good start). Perhaps it's hard to dump her for just that and make it one swift blow, but I'm quite sure that's where things lead.

Not to bore you to death with my own outpourings, but if I am to be brutally honest, I've had a similar case recently and I have to admit it didn't lead to a swift dumping, so it's easier said than done. But it led to parting ways, anyway, and it would have been better to cut it earlier. The way I see it, you're going to have more and more such problems with her until you split by someone's decision. Or a common one. I surely don't wish you that, but I'd rather wish you a better relationship than good luck with one like this. Unless the girl is going to undergo some change, which isn't unlikely, as some people become less selfish and more considerate upon leaving behind the mid or late teens, but you never know. All in all, I really don't envy you. But I know your pain from experience, if this helps you.

Uytuun's suggestion is certainly more socially acceptable and probably makes you a better person, but while I actually act like that in my own life in the end (because I can't myself deliver a swift dump), I think you'd be better off cutting it early enough. Personally, I prefer to give second and third chances and to suffer a bit before I dump someone. It's your pick.

But she has considered it and dropped the idea not because it would wrong to do but because it would make you feel bad. Now she will still miss the better seats and also start to blame you subconsciously for that she had to stay in the worse ones. If I were in your shoes, I would let her go. I never tell women to do or not to do something. I let them do what they will and I make the right connections in my mind. Maybe she would go with him and start feeling bad for a couple of hours the concert is supposed to last, and that would teach her a lesson for the rest of her life.

There will be many situations in the future when your woman (whoever it be at that time) is facing a choice while you are away. You can't always make the decision or even demand because of some of the choices you will simply never know. It's good to be able to trust that she will be responsible. However, there is no responsibility without freedom. If you don't let her make the choices, you won't know what choices she makes. That's why I prefer to leave them freedom and just watch and make my conclusions.

 

I just don't think she is capable of cheating (if not physically, then thinking about it) without feeling huge amounts of guilt, and she hasn't shown any symptoms of guilt. As I think about it more, I don't think it has anything to do with this guy, because she talks about having good time with her friends all of the time (which also slightly bothers me, because I never hear her talk about having good times with me . Of course, thats because I was there to experience it, she wouldn't need to tell me, she would tell her other friends.).

In the future, I will follow your advice, I think, when I start dealing with more insidious women.

 

I don't mean to call Uytuun 'Love', but love seems more like her than you, Chev. No offense ment.
Like you said before:

I don't see why love can't endure a thing like this. Saber's girl here *seems* to be quite an independant lady, outgoing, who likes to be with her friends. That doesn't mean that she values them more than her friend Saber.
Saber just needs to find out if she is going just for the band (and so taking the better places) or to have a nice time with him. Both are cool, imo. The fact that she will be standing there with someone she seemingly speaks highly of, doesn't really matter to me. In fact, she will be happy to see that Saber is kind of jealous. He should tell so, if he hasn't already. But he can't *tell* her not to do so. He is her lover, not her pimp.
Just have a good chat, and that's it. IMO.

 

MoN, I did say he shouldn't make her stay. But this doesn't automatically mean he should be or act happy with her choice. There's a difference here.

For example, if I were Saber, I would let her, but I would have a very serious conversation with her about it. Most likely wouldn't dump her on the spot but would end up parting ways with her because of the obvious incompatibility.

To me, Saber seems more of a serious, committed person, considerate and paying attention to how his behaviour affects other people. His girl is more on the egoistic and flighty age, lighthearted and not very serious. I don't think it's a good match and there's no reason to be rude, condemning or condescending about it; it's just better to split up and cast the net elsewhere.

Heck, I would be happy to be proved wrong and I wish Saber all the best of luck surprising me. But I'm a bit more realistic than you or Uytuun are. You can call me unloving for that, but I think I just mind certain bad types of behaviour more than you do. And a lady doesn't leave her previously agreed companion alone beside an empty chair in favour of a better seat and a different person to talk to, so as much as you are noble and kind in your evaluation, I think you're giving the girl a bit too much credit. She may be a great girl in many more other aspects, but in this one, her behaviour is hard to take. I'm not saying she's a bad person. She just needs to mature a bit.

[ October 14, 2006, 23:50: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

I guess from what I wrote, sure, but we spoke tonight (not about what I was distressed with), and I learned something different. I won't go into detail, because she seemed like she wanted it to be between us, but what she said kind of explains her actions.

 

How is that? I mean, if she wanted it to be between you and her, I can't see how she could possibly swap that plan for a seat with that guy. It already looks unrealistic that she should choose him over you and the just-about-the-better-seat version is even more so.

 

No, we didn't talk about the seating arrangement. I meant what she told me was confidential between us.

 

I agreed with you untill this:

What do we really know about Saber and his lover? I take it the 2 of them work out just great, but she wants to see that band so badly, she may decide to go with other friends. That would be a silly thing to see the 2 as incompatible for having a relation.

Realistic or pessimistic? You could call it a certain bad type of behaviour. I just see it as a sign that the two can still live their own life. (Or at least, I try to see it that way, because i know nothing about Saber, and even less about his girl.) Lovers should be able to survive a brief moment without their spous.

Perhaps she already matured to the status of independence, something I value in a spous.
Its important to let your girl do her things, and let you do your things. Lovers don't need to act like conjointed twins. You'll have to respect her decisions, but also have a right to say what you feel about them, like telling her you're jealous. (which is 'healthy', as I see it.)

The main question for me here is: What does she expect from that night? A neat party at her favorite band's act or a nice day off with Saber?

Edit: Wow man, I am a slow typer. Even worse when slighlty intoxicated. Took me more than half an hour to get this post done...