Relationship Rant Thread #3

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@Daie: As for cute vs sexy, girls at some point finally stick with cute. Guys do the same. And funny is an asset. As for your special girl having a harem of guys... well, personality doesn't score such an immediate attraction but people with personality have more impetus than those with looks. They are ultimately more likely to make it.

@Ara: Try to see the man behind the celebrity. Picking up girls in a circle where you are popular is all fun, but what's less fun is when a more popular or influential guy shows up and steals your loot. Or wait and see what happens when your popularity fades. This is why I doubt any celebrity guy would ever jump into a relationship with someone who's into his celebrity status. When getting to know a stranger in sparkly circumstances, perhaps he would even try to keep it secret.

@Ilmater's Suffering: I'm not sure I understand you fully, but I agree that too much drama in a relationship is not good. Forgetting about the rest of the world isn't great, either. Possessiveness, desire of control, extreme jealousy, paranoia, these are bad things. But nothing wrong with an epic relationship in the sense of two people finding a great match in each other, feeling strongly and going to hell and back together. It just doesn't work like that for most people in the normal world.

I've heard about (and from) people breaking up because it was too good with someone. Or because they were becoming too attached. Fear of relationships being too intense might lead to such things. Or the notorious "time alone" issues. Or expecting something bad to happen just because it feels too good to be true. Sometimes people do weird things just because things are too good and click too well.

 

incidentally, I got to get all cruch-y on the guy based on pics my friend posted in her blog in addittion to telling about how nice ans stuff he is. as in, talkign about hima s one of the guys, nto a celeb. it took me a while to figutre out that heh is worthy of his own wikipedia article and possibly becomes mega-famous soon.

makes me feel blah cause guys like that in general go for the pres-appropriate (aka pretty and skinny bimbo) sort of a gf....

 

You satisfied now, Chev?

 

It's a desire to place emphasis on emotion, borrowed from the 19th century romantics (a 19th century romantic, something I seem to hopelessly be).

The desire for an intense relationship is because it emphasizes emotion. I'm an intense and domineering personality in all my personal relationships so I suppose it's only natural to want someone who's intense and domineering like myself for a relationship (I can't stand relationships with those girls whose personalities I easily dominate). Because, without thinking, I typically take control of most people I have "non-casual" relationship with, a relationship with a girl who isn't strong willed quickly becomes a relationship that gets set on a back burner, it becomes a relationship that's too much about me and too much a relation of convience for for a meaningful relationship to take hold (any relationship that is about me, I have a bad habit of investing no time into, it becomes the other person's responsbility to keep the relationship together; that I seem to find a lot of people willing to do this doesn't help either).

Fighting always seems to be the sure sign for me that I'm in a "good" relationship, because fighting means I'm investing energy into the relationship.

 

@Illmater-You *have* to be in a relationship with someone that you can respect. If you can dominate them, you can't respect them (as you've obviously already figured out, so bear with me.) The best thing to do would be to figure out what makes you respect a person (for me it was finding someone that was-ever so slightly-smarter than I am) and then make sure that person can stand up for herself. Don't make the dominate thing the primary thing you're looking for, lest you find yourself referring to your girlfriend as a shrew. (If she tries to dominate you and you try to dominate her, then all you'll do is argue about everything. Just look for someone who's willing to stand up for herself, but doesn't make a big deal out of it.)

 

@DotW: I was but teasing you. But you know what's in your heart.

@Ilmater's Suffering: Sometimes domineering personalities want a co-domineering relationship, sometimes they want the other person to submit, so I guess just one of these options isn't the natural, obvious choice... I think wanting submissive behaviour on the other person's part would be the more natural one, actually.

I know both parts of what you describe -- i.e. that you want someone also domineering and the part about not investing in a relationship if it's about you. Let's just say I've had some bad experience. If the whole thing becomes focused on the girl, that is, what she feels like, how things make her feel, if she's entertained enough when she wants on the one hand and if she has enough time alone on the other hand, not to mention meeting times, it first taxes me a lot and then I more and more strongly realise the relationship is not good (sort of alignment sense) and things that are so, I can't take part in. So it's a downfall, basically.

Hmmm... you can also meet people who want you to carry the whole burden of the relationship in normal times but switch roles when it comes to breaking up. "Or we can break up if you don't like," has only a limited effect on me, but the thing from the previous sentence is something both I and my next door best buddy have come accross.

And yeah, fighting is good. If you don't fight, it means you either don't care enough to fight (that would be quite a cynical approach... Saying, "yes, darling, you are right," while thinking, "no, bitch, you are dead wrong again," or just, "whatever") or you're too afraid someone will leave you if you aren't honest about things and stand up for yourself. If the latter is the case, then it's probably a largely one-sided relationship. Physical fighting (and I'm not talking about wrestling or fencing to unload it as some people do) or nasty name calling is a different thing, though.

@DJ: Very right. Mutual submission is bad because both people will seek to escape certain burdens and initiative will be lacking in the relationship. Mutual domination attempts are a bad thing, as well, because, as you say, people won't give it a rest and approach things case by case, but they will try to shift the balance of power permanently in one or other direction. And that I don't like. No matter how a person reassured me of her feelings, I would never be able to stay for long with a woman trying to put herself above me on principle, whether as an "official" thing or in practical terms.

 

Well, chev, you rememeber the gal in my classes I told you about? It seems that the more I push her away, the more she tries to get closer to me. The idea already has difficulty sinking in, and that makes it only worse. She and I are more than due for a little head-to-head chat, just to clear up a few things. I am not going to be a part of her life.

 

DotW, give her my number...

 

Sorry, it's not my politic to try to match people together. Besides, she's got a bf (and yet she's pursuing me). The more I push her away, the more closer she tries to get. She's sure trying hard, I'll give her that. Anyhoo, we're set to have a little head-to-head chat next saturday, which hopefully will clear things up.

 

Without prejudice to potential justifiable exceptions, people shouldn't make moves on one person why being with another. There's a huge chance you'd be better off with your computer, Daie.

 

It's a woman thing (I'm speaking generally. *I* don't do it, but I've seen many many woman who do).

A lot of women don't like to have a male friend that they're reasonably close with have another woman they have to share him with. It's kind of a sense of wanting to have every man in their radius be intent soley on them.

And then (ahem) the more the man pushes them away, the harder they pursue. When they finally get the close friend to actually have a crush on them, they don't want him anymore.

Sound familiar?

The women who are worst about this this are the ones who actually have boyfriends-then they have an easy out should the close friend develop the crush and then do something awkward like, say, ask them on a date.

 

...Awfully.

Saying that she leaves me indifferent would be lying, purely and simply, because she really doesen't leave me indifferent.

But ask her on a date? Come on. I have nothing to possibly offer her. In fact, I even wonder what she likes in me. I've always wondered what every single of my exes liked in me. Besides, I have plenty of enemies, and I don't need one more (that would be her bf if he ever learned I invited her on a date). I'm not a relationship-breaker.

Normally I would just shrug it off, but she's increasingly difficult to get out of my mind. A part of me wants to be with her, the other just wants to see her disappear from my life forever. It will probably happen someday, as I completly suck at keeping friends.

 

Kill the BF, dump the body, get on with life! Just kidding, I aggree that breaking up a relationship is not the way to go.

In other news, I have made some headway with Mrs. Brallrock. I told that there was a problem, and that we needed to talk, and proceeded to tell her my problems. She got really mad and yelled alot, but at least she is communicating, and admit that there is a problem. The problem is personal, and quite a touchy situation, which alos involves my Mother. I think I can handle it now I know what the problem is. Thanks for your support, and advice. (the flowers, while appreciated, did not do the trick)

As for your brother DoTW, personal experince says that he wouldn't listen to you anyways. I told my brother he was making a big mistake marrying his wife. Not that I am an "I told you so" kinda person, but they are no longer together.

 

DoTW, you don't want to be with that woman. You don't want to be with any woman that plays any sort of game involving you. No matter how alluring the perspective might be, you are but a pawn in her game.

In casu, she's trying to find in you what she can't in her boyfriend. I suppose what DJ says also applies and she will lose interest as you gain it. Besides, if she's doing it now, she may do it later, when she's with you and not with him. How many special friends does she have or will she have yet?

@Brallrock: That's good to hear. I hope she's soon going to see how unreasonable it is to yell at you if you're only trying to help and aren't causing the problem.

@DJ: Do I know that... I think men can do that as well. I suppose most people just want to feel cared for and be seen as attractive by their friends, as important persons in their lives. But some take it to such extremes as what you said, yes. I think it's been like that with me many times.

 

Join the club, im forever getting the "You would be a perfect boyfriend for someone" then the "Your too nice to date" which is swiftly followed with a bitchy rant about how the person they are dating "Isnt as nice to them, and they wish they could find someone as nice as me" DUH!! Its here, infront of you, wake up and smell the coffee!!

Yep, i get that all the time, whenever i start getting chatting someone up in a club or somewhere, one of my "friends" comes over ad starts dancing all flirty with me, which scares off the other girl, then she gets offensve when i tell her to F*** off, followed 2 seconds later by the "If you wanted me to go, just say" I DID TELL YOU!!! BAH!!

 

...I know, I ****ing know. I won't play her ****ing game... but I'm having the hardest time in completly withdrawing myself from the equation. To succesfully do it, I would have to completly, purely and simply vanish without a trace. I am pretty skilled with that. But unless I fail one exam in my classes, and head back to college, for the moment, vanishing without a trace is impossible.

I have considered that through and through. I know I wouldn't tolerate that kind of fooling around. But what do I know, I'm not part of her life and I never will be. Regardless of how difficult persuading myself of that can be, I WILL get through it. I have been through hell and back, and I have survived!

What am I to do, then? The harder I push her away, the harder she tries to get closer to me. I take my distances, she nullifies my efforts by stepping back in. Should I just fight fire with fire and crush on her back? It seems illogical.

Finally.

I know. I'm standing away from all that self-destructive relationship, and if suffering is the only way for him to learn, then so be it.

EDIT: Wow, what a rant.

[ May 04, 2006, 19:12: Message edited by: Disciple of The Watch ]

 

Yeah. Rant on, brother. I hear you. Sounds like exact quote from my past romantic interests. WTF are they doing with the current one if they want someone like the one they are turning down? There is a possibility that they just want someone as nice as you but they don't feel the chemistry in your direction, so it has to be someone like you but still a bit different, I guess. They aren't totally unreasonable, they just think in weird tracks and use a lot of shortcuts. Still, what point sticking with a jerk if they want something else?

Yeah, some people just want some friends to be single, so that they would be more accessible and there would be less need for restraint. Especially single and with at least a slight crush means attainable. And if one or two friends are attainable, the girl in question doesn't have to do anything constructive about her love life but can stick with the jerk who's giving her "that kind of reaction" and complain about him all she wants on the shoulder of a nice friend. Male, of course.

But it's not so one-sided as one might think. Sometimes those friends behave as if they were your woman when something bad happens to you.

I have mixed feelings about their jealous-protective reflexes like claiming you're with them and scaring other girls off while they don't exactly want a relationship. I guess if you're fishing for a girlfriend, you might not like that. But if you're much into friends, it probably has some good sides. After all, if you're around someone a lot and something is about to happen, it will happen sooner or later, anyway. No matter the current relationship configuration. But it's always painful if a friend behaves like your woman in everything except actually being one, and even cuts off other women, but in the end doesn't want you that way. Damn, I had a lot of that in the past. It's not so bad if you stay single all the time, but it complicates things a whole damn lot otherwise.

One way of dealing with that is waiting them all out. You will have made friends with them and friendships starting in late teens or early twenties tend to last for lifetime. You will have gained some experience with the nature of the female race as well. And it's not like you need a girlfriend now. What for? It's going to take time before you know what you want in life and are able to settle down. Friends will have friends whom you will meet and your social net will grow. That's a good thing for finding a mate if you're thirty and desperate or something. Or one of the friends will perhaps realise you're the man.

From my own experience, I can tell you that those erm... strange friends do change mind later on. More than one sometimes. What's more, as years open your eyes, it turns out that you behaved like that as well, even if you were of the nice guys. And that you misled or hurt a couple of women as well, without knowing. That maybe a friend or three counted on more than you wanted to give, more or less justifiably. And yeah, this one is from own experience too.

Well, and ask any woman who's past her earliest years, taste in men changes. If you're a nice guy and stay single until you're approaching your thirties, you're going to be much wanted and perhaps competed for. Or heck, not even thirties but much earlier sometimes. They get past the bad guy psychosis.

I suppose much of the bad guy effect is they want to try and be over with it and the best way to learn is in pain. Plus, a nice guy has less of the compelling effect: this is because the nice guy doesn't play foul games and have an addictive effect in the wrong sense. Isn't pushing her into a psychotic state, either. Besides, sometimes they know they will have to break up at some point but are scared of it because the same big bad guy they were so thrilled by would try to break their necks for it. And a nice guy "will understand". Sometimes they will even start a relationship with someone so he would finally stop bugging them about it. Blaaah. Enough of my babbling, you know this all already.

Not saying the average man is better or that there are no exceptions among women.

@DoTW:

Or stop playing her game altogether. Tell her you know what she's trying to play and you won't tolerate it. She has to get over it and stop making moves on you or you will tell her boyfriend who, after all, has some right to know.

 

Well, luckly for me there are the occasional nights out where its just me and a bunch of guys, meaning we all get a wingman and no interfeering women, uless its a protective friend of the girl your chatting up...

 

@the advice for DotW: Hear, hear chev!

The best thing to do would be to let her know that you're not willing to play her game. Sit her down and say, look, you have a boyfriend and we're just friends but it occurs to me that you've been making serious advances towards me during X amount of time. I don't appreciate it and I doubt your boyfriend appreciates it. (You can add an I don't deny that the thought of being with you intrigues me, but I don't like the idea that you would do something like that while you have a boyfriend.) If you want to remain friends with me, then I'll have to ask you to stop flirting with me; if you're not willing or able to do so, then we need to break up the friendship.
It won't be easy, especially if you ARE attracted to her, but in the long run it will make you feel better. Being friends with her while she still flirts with you will just make you feel like a muskrat is trying to claw it's way out of your stomach, and sucessfully getting her to date you would only make you feel good for a little while before the muskrat moves back in, for reasons that chev pointed out.
Good luck!

 

You can sit her down and remain standind for some additional feeling of control. Watch the towering part or she's going to make it look like you're abusing her (to other people or as a guilt trip). Avoid eye contact if she's pulling sad eyes on you but look in the face or you'll be losing ground. Don't repeat yourself. If you are repeating yourself, most likely you are losing ground. On the other hand, if you let her repeat herself, chances are she's ingraining something into you. Don't answer tricky questions or those that serve no obvious purpose. If you need to ask something, frame it the right way so you don't have to pull her tongue too much after she first replies. If you aren't sure she's being honest, remember what you ask so you can ask later (with or without rephrasing) and compare answers. Ask if you don't understand something and avoid making assumptions. Don't let it show how much you want to know something or she will think twice before telling you. You can also wrap what you want to know in a more complicated question. Or you can give her opportunities to contradict you (Like thet classic, "What would your boyfriend say?" "I have no boyfriend." Or, "What did he say?" "I didn't talk to him." -- Note that taking a guess and asking like that can make someone think you already know and there's no point denying.). Avoid any sort of cleavage dives or leg glimpses if she's attractive to you (She will know if you look and will use it.). You can even tell her to do a button or two. Make sure you look presentable, can manage your voice, aren't company-starved etc.

Or if you're really tired of games, just tell her the whole thing and be gone.

Perhaps you could tell her her game and dubious fidelity to her boyfriend has crossed her out as your potential love interest because you value honesty and staying true to commitment.

And if you really aren't sure you'll be able to resist her, you can always do something stupid. Tell her she's not your type (any woman who flirts on the side is not your type), you disdain her behaviour, you're going to tell her boyfriend... or even actually tell her boyfriend.