Relationship Rant Thread #4

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Welcome to my world

You mean we don't? Well I always do, just not usually from the person offering it

 

Ditto

 

Hehe....I feel like I'm eves dropping.

 

Madam palm and her five lovely daughters would have been a better shag than that horse, let me tell you.

 

Now I'm stuck with the mental image of Madam Horse, her rippling muscles and thunderous hooves.

 

Guys, you really ought to find some hobbies...

 

Barmy, I wish something like that would happen to me now and again. Not that I care much for horses, mind you...

 

I've still got hopes of getting this girl I like. Christ, she's a looker... and a lovely girl too, I think that's what swings it for me. She's really caring and very genuinely friendly with everyone she meets. I'll keep working on it . I'll stay good mates with her, hopefully she'll come to like me.

I've never been one to shag anything for the sake of getting a bit though. I'm not big on that.

 

@chevalier

It´s kind of an old reply but you´d say:

"I have awful will saves and I get rerolls."

I used to think the same about myself, but unfortunately, you will find out that sometimes you ´re gonna (re)roll a natural 1 (or she rolls a 20).
It´s just a question of time, and they seems to have a monk´s patience in any matter that they´re "really" insterested (that means YOU or any of your "vices"), or some project, or even the next movie you´re going to watch... the list goes on and on, and somewhere on the road , you said: "it´s not like me giving up(caffeine,smoke,rpg games,candys,jogging,eating,sleeping,etc) is ACTUALLY gonna kill me or something", and BANG!!, that´s it.She actually changed something about you that botters her !
And for what ? because she actually cares about your health? ! nonsenses ! They want to prove themselves(and sometimes their female friends) that she actually CAN and eventually WILL changed you, because "I´m gonna take out the person you always wanted to be"...the real chevalier...
The 95 % of the womens loves the man that lies behind the surface, and worked hard to make that specimen goes out to the ligth...and when you (without acknowledge) became that one(the process may take about 1-3 years of stable relationship, depending of the starting subject)...She get bored of you!
Because there´s nothing else to change you! The challenge is over!
So, trough all those years and many relationships , I´ve discovered this: you don´t have to make concessions (I don´t know if this word it´s rigth, it means when you "surrender" little things) of any kind about your "personality", just for the "health" of the relationship, or you´re gonna end dumped or changed into something even worst: a tamed man, a boy who´s tied to one´s wife/girlfriend

 

I used to have poor will saves for that, but now I'm better about it. I'm willing to adjust my behaviour as for what concerns the other person as well, so long as the demand is reasonable (and asking kindly if it doesn't mean as much to me as to the other person is quite reasonable as well ), but in a situation like concede or get dumped, I would be inclined to end the relationship myself and, at any rate, I don't give in to blackmail, including emotional blackmail.

There's a theory that says the woman will always try to improve her position in the relationship, which is a survival thing and is related to survival of her children. That theory is more or less consistent with my experience, but there are some altruistic individuals who are not concerned with their position, as well as some reasonable inviduals who are able to get over it (control it). What's more, in a normal situation, most women will be generous and/or reasonable about it, but it takes a pathological situation or a pathological individual to create deep or lasting problems. It's just we notice and remember pathologies more easily than normal, healthy situations.

I have to say I'm pretty sensitive to attempts towards domination and I can generally sense if a person is trying to pull the alpha thing and dominate the surroundings or a certain specific person, or me. I don't put up with it, no matter who it is. I realise it's mostly a bad day or a sensitive matter or something related to ambition or self-esteem or whatever, so I don't get grievously offended, but I just cut it. It's one think when someone really has a problem with you and a different thing when someone generally wants to make you a better person or change yourself for your own or for general good. And it's a whooooole different thing when someone just wants to change you - either to suit his or her tastes better or to exert some normative influence.

When I say I don't mind being convinced to go to bed early, to give up some addiction or unhealthy habit, that's because while it's not exactly what I want to do, it's good for me. The person most likely has my good in mind, not his or her vision of me, or individual tastes. I want to make such decisions myself, but sometimes people have a point. Thing is, if I do what they are asking or advising, I follow advice - I don't give in to blackmail.

As for tastes and subjective matters, it's a matter of respect and reasonability. I certainly don't mind being taught how to do something right, or better, or in a different way. I don't mind sharing in other people's experience. I don't mind people sticking to their ways and even trying to convince me if they really believe in something - even if it's for the sake of the idea rather than for my own good (it still, however, indirectly, has my good in mind, in some way). In fact, I actually like the way some of the people I've known and respected have left some trace on my personality. It generally depends on how reasonable their ideas are, how much I respect them, how respectful they are and how they go about it.

And what's a different thing is when someone is just trying to change you and it's neither about your good, nor about a noble idea, but about influence. I believe it's rarely an exclusive motive - it would take a really disturbed person to attempt to change you just to prove he or she can - but people will often subconsciously or semi-subconsciously try to gain or prove some kind of authority over you or at least influence over you. I believe a related situation is when someone piles up demands - at some point it becomes about demands more than about anything. Again, I don't tend to see evil manipulation there - more like a bad day, a desperate need to matter (to have influence on what's going on, to make binding decisions), dissatisfaction with one's own life (and trying to make up for it in the lives of others). However, I don't give in to the demands or even allow them to continue piling up, but I cut it. Compassion should not lead to injustice. You may be generous with what you can give, but there are some things you can't give. Some requests that can't be granted. Some requests that shouldn't be considered because of the way they are made, as well.

As an example, let's suppose you own and drive the car and your wife likes yellow, while you like red. Let's suppose you can both be happy with orange because it's red enough for you and yellow enough for her. That request is not 100% unselfish, but she's being reasonable and all - and you would be a swine to insist on a cold metallic shade of red, or perhaps to insist on red just to prove your point. On the other hand, if she just asks you to make it a warm, bright shade because it will make her feel better, you'd need to be a total swine to deny it to her. But imagine she just downright requires you to paint it yellow and she won't compromise - that's a request you could consider (because as a nice and loving guy, you might even want to paint it yellow, especially if it matters more to her than it does to you), but you should most probably not grant. Similarly, if she comes up with green because it's the favourite colour of neither of you, you could consider it because it's not such a horribly unfair solution, but she should rather propose orange, as a constructive compromise rather than a compromise for its own sake, and she seems to be forgetting that the car is yours, so your equal deviation from favourite colour is not quite equal concession - because she has less title to the car. Right? So the request should probably be turned down. But if she gets to know that you dislike grey and she doesn't even ask for yellow, which she likes more than grey, or content herself with red which you like, but she just wants you to change for her to something you don't like without even any special benefit for her, but just because she wants you to make a sacrifice for her, then that request should not even be considered. And if the woman is not yet your wife actually, she probably shouldn't become one.

So, if you don't consider the good or evil, just or unjust, beneficial or harmful nature of the request or wish, but you only consider it as a request or wish by someone who can "punish" you with withdrawal of affection or make you feel bad by putting up a scene, then you will neither do the right thing, nor make yourself happy. But there's nothing wrong with being convinced, so long as there's no unfair pressure.

 

@chevalier
"You may be generous with what you can give, but there are some things you can't give. Some requests that can't be granted. Some requests that shouldn't be considered because of the way they are made, as well."

How many times we hear " if you love me, you have to stop/begin do this and that ..."
Reading your last post , I´ve realized that I´m not alone in this universe...

 

You can reply, "If you loved me, you wouldn't say what I 'have to.'" But I guess they loved you but just couldn't really get some things straight. At any rate, I haven't actually heard that much. Like nowadays she's caring about my not so healthy sleep patterns and sort of scared for me, which I find so cute. That's different from making me fit into the mould or find a new girl, for example. I don't allow people to make rules for me or trying to smuggle an obligation into my brain.

"If you love me," is only valid when it actually concerns the speaker somehow, e.g. "if you love me, you should respect a no," "if you love me, you could at least take your hands out of your pockets while talking to me," "if you love me, you could at least not smoke in my car," "if you love me, you don't need porn mags." Of course, "if you love me, you could lose a couple pounds," is a bit less entitled and things like, "if you love me, you should understand I need to confirm my attractiveness with other people," are total bull****, even if they do concern the speaker.

Here's the catch: While I believe people don't have the right to demand too much change, and the less so the less it actually concerns them, I don't believe they have an obligation to put up with it (i.e. you shouldn't blackmail a person into specific behaviour but at the same time you don't owe him a relationship despite that either).

[ January 06, 2007, 04:38: Message edited by: chevalier ]

 

Maybe it's because of my total lack of sleep recently but I didn't really understood your point with the car things, chevalier. Too many colours and differents situations.

 

Chev translation: "Influence isn't bad per se - but demands are."

 

Demands can sometimes be reasonable too. What's bad and absolutely not acceptable is demands for their own sake - such as asking for something which the asker doesn't care much for, but which is difficult for the asked. That's a domination thing or simply being whimsical and we don't like either.

 

Whoops. Remember the one I'm not interested in? Well I had a few bottles of red and we were both a bit (a lot) drunk. Don't think I really need to go into the specifics of course, but I think this could be quite bad

 

So, Chevalier if my girlfriend (Damn I loath calling her that it seems to me as if it she's not an important person at all!, I'll call her by her real name). So if Lacia is always telling me to stop smoking and if she ask that I don't get drunk when she's around? I know she don't care when I'm with my friend though. Are these, for you, reasonable request or just « demands for demands ?». I'm curious, I want to know what people think.

 

Well stopping smoking is a reasonable request. That's for her benefit as much as yours. Nobody likes to kiss someone who smokes!

I can't see why she can reasonably ask you to not get drunk when 'she's around' though. Some of the best sex is had under the influence of alcohol, when women forget their inhibitions. Boyfriend and girlfriend are meant to get drunk together .

 

@barmy
"Some of the best sex is had under the influence of alcohol, when women forget their inhibitions."

Amen,brother !
Sometimes it is the ONLY way we can get some pusssy, if you don´t mind someone who can puke your "jhonson" while having a blowjob.

 

@Ofelix: If we agree that asking you to stop smoking is reasonable because it affects you, then it's only reasonable to infer that asking you to avoid being drunk in her presence is reasonable as well - because the mind-altering effects of alcohol change your behaviour into something she might not like.

Also, if you care for someone, it's reasonable to ask that person to stop smoking because smoking damages the health of the person and shortens his lifespan as well. Getting drunk also has negative effects on the person's health, as well as leading to addiction - and we probably agree that addictions affect everyone who has to deal with the addicted. So, apart from the fact that what she asks for is good for you, she has the right to ask that in her own name, not just for your benefit. It's good that she asks you instead of making demands.

As for the difference between asking, requesting, or making demands, I believe some of us talking here don't stress the difference enough. A suggestion is not a request and a request is not a demand. Even a demand is not always blackmail. Unfair pressure is wrong, but this doesn't mean any pressure is wrong. Some people believe that even asking them to drop a bad habit attacks their freedom. That view is wrong and it makes it look like people have problems making their mind or sticking to their decisions. I have my resolve and my willpower and I'm not offended by being asked to do this or that or hearing opinions that I should do otherwise. We have freedom of conscience, of opinion, but we don't have the kind of freedom never to be even presented with views not coinciding with our own.

@Lord FOX: By contrast, I believe that sexual intercourse in circumstances precluding free consent is below human dignity - especially in a situation where it wouldn't happen between the two people in question. Similarly, I believe uninhibited sex in general is below human dignity, as there is no dignity in doing something one would normally be ashamed to do, or morally repulsed from doing. It doesn't enrich the person in question in any way, but it disintegrates him or her. It's far from love or charity in any form.

[ January 07, 2007, 19:34: Message edited by: chevalier ]