Religion

Heh, simultaneous post. You have some good comments there Rakanishu. Just for clarification, my earlier post didn't claim that humans weren't animals, only that we were animals that functioned on more than just instinct.
Does the ability to have emotions and think at a higher level make humans a better animal? Yes and No. We can minimize our pain and maximize our enjoyment throughout life. We can make close friends and find perfect lovers. We can rise above our tedious existance and make our time here incredible and fulfilling.
Unfortunately, we can also do the exact opposite of everything I just listed here.

I too have faced people on their death beds, my grandparents both dying prolonged deaths that gave them time to think about what was happening to them. I often ask myself how I would cope in that situation. I 'lie' to them and tell them that their pain will soon be over and that they are going to a better place, if only to give their last few moments of life some meaning and hope. Who really cares if it's true or not if helps out a person in need? I don't do it to give myself peace of mind. We are so concerned about our own well being that we forget about trying to help others. If we could ditch our selfishness for a few moments we would realize that helping others has the side benefit of making us as individuals feel better.

Everyone has their own means of existance and methods of coping. Who are we to judge? People can be happy and productive regardless of what they believe, it really is their choice.

[This message has been edited by Lord Moeken (edited February 26, 2001).]

 

But of course! Survival of the fittest. Oh wait... that's a Darwinism isn't it? Silly me...

It seems likely that any religion that preached tolerance would have eventually fractured into obscurity. Only by enforcing the One True Dogma could a religion hope to outlast its competition. If that takes force of arms and Holy Wars, well then, apparently that's the price that must be paid for the One True God to reign supreme.

*shakes her head*

 

Christianity has absolutely NOTHING to do with non-believers going to hell. That is just some kind of legend just like that we roleplayers worship satan. Everyone goes to heaven. I think god must be good. He/she just wan't us to learn it by ourselves.
In my eyes we have never truly evolved. Equal rights for all is of course a step in the right direction. But just look at northern Ireland or Israel! Just like the crusades.
Religion is because we are afraid? Maybe.
Maybe we just lack purpose. But I belive there IS purpose. We must evolve into a better, more tolerant and understanding race. And I am most definitely NOT saying
I am perfect. All persons have prejudices.
And what about people like satanist's or racist's? Should their opinions be tolerated too?

 

The way I see it, a "Holy War" is one of the biggest contradictii in termini (forgive me my rusty latin plural ) you can have.

Who on earth can with the idea to link Holy with War ? That man possibly did even more damage to mankind then the one that said this is mine for the first time.

*sigh*

 

I like to think on more neutral terms myself. Racists of course must be wrong since color is the only issue with race. There is nothing that can be said in general of a race past basic physical features. Satanism, however, is just another religion to me. Think about what you are saying. Wicca and Paganism promote religious tolerance, and they are still practiced by many today.

 

What exactly is Satanism?

My understanding is that if there were no Chritianity, Judaism or Islam, there would be no Satan.

See how these three religions aspire towards good (in general). In contrast Satanists worhip the opposite of good in order to have power over others, and to be feared.

If that is the case they are the enemies of mankind and must be destroyed just as other charlatans should be.

 

Hmm...but we live in a free world. You can say what you want. But who cares about satanism anyway? It's only about provoking.
If they truly believed in satan we would see much more horrible things than graffiti on churches and desecrated graves.

 

DS- How can you even think that? We certainly do NOT live in a free world. Some of us happened to be born into a society that at best tolerates free speech, and at worst uses it as a vehicle for slander and worse. But there ARE places in this world where such provoking speech (as Satanism, or immorality, or simply opening your mouth) can get you in serious trouble.

No offense, intended... Just felt the need to point out the obvious.

 

He he! Look what I did!!!

Look folks, I certainly did not intend this thread to be a battleground. Now it's just funny. Anywho, to answer a much, much, much earlier question, YES! War is the price we pay for sins. That's right from the Bible.

In any case, if you wnat some good, deep religious insight, watch "Life of Brian."

 

I am very very sorry. I guess I just didn't think everything through. But hey...even countries you call free can be quite the opposite.
People call Denmark paradise. But what is often the truth? Racism and intolerance.
What I meant before was that we in theory live in a "free" world. But there are many things that can get you in trouble even though it would seem obvious to tolerate it!
Hmf. I have been jugded twice in my school.
First for being a roleplayer. Then for being
christian. The law don't punish you for saying what you wan't, but if you don't have the same opinion as everyone else...


[This message has been edited by Divine Shadow (edited February 27, 2001).]

 

This will most definetly offend somebody, but here goes:

Religion is a sham, cooked up by people who were so desperate to figure out who or what created them that they thought up some stern figure that created everything. This spread through the ages like a plague. How can you believe such things. It is both illogical and impossible. Not to mention that the things done in the name of "God" and religion are horrible and just plain disturbing. A bunch of fanatical christians forming riots and busting up labs, the wars and arguments that have gone through the years, and we should never forget the harsher religions, where even a small transgression warrants death or dismembering. Religion is a horrible thing, that was the core of the cause of thousnads of deaths, and much suffering.

 

Actually, I think most of that's already been brought up... And few people seem to be taking offense. I'm surprised and impressed that so volatile a topic has been handled so well in such a diverse community.

This place "ROCKS"!

 

Hmmm, it's easy to look back over history to contemplate all of the injustice, death and war that was all spawned by various religions. Boy, if only there were no laws or enforced doctrines, I'm sure that humankind would be much better off today

 

I might post my opinion on this subject later, but for now, I will leave you with this:

Evolution has not been proven, and yet it has. There are 5 types of evolution. (I would tell you them all right now, but I only remember 4 of them... Micro, Macro, Cosmic, Chemical... and something else.) Anyway, only Micro-evolution has been proven. That is, basic adaptation. Ex: some animals grow more hair to adapt to cooler climate. (That has been proven.) Etc, etc. (There are many, many more examples that I would state if I were using more of my brain today...)

This was kind of off the subject yet I hope it clears a few things up. You guys were talking a bit about evolution and I just thought about it. If any of you have any questions about this subject, I know a great web site for you to visit: (Be in mind, it is Protestant based.) I had my doubts at first but I gave him a chance. (I actually saw him and went to a meeting that he hosted. I have seen him in many debates as well.) Just give it a chance. If nothing else but to enlarge your perspective. www.drdino.com

You may email him and ask him ANY question about this subject.

[This message has been edited by Vile (edited February 28, 2001).]

 

Once upon a time literacy was a priviledge. People didn't have time and money to learn to read and to buy books. Most scholars that existed up to Middle Ages were monks. They were also the historians and often scientists. Religion was (and still is) an institution of soul searching and knowledge. But of course it's more complicated than that, since free thinking was out of the question in the clerical walls. And yet the inquisition didn't always exist, and only appeared when the religious and scientific views started to seriously contradict each other.
I guess this is a reply to Fat Eggs's post - religion did have an important part in our history, once upon a time the society was divided into aristocrats, clergy and common people [and slaves]. Church performed many functions besides weddings and sunday messes they were a base for astrologers, meteorologists (that's the weather people for u, astronomers study meteors ), historians, artists (for a certain period in European History there was no civil art at all), etc... Church gained a lot of power through these services and gained a significant economical and political force. Btw by "church" I don't mean just Christian church a lot of cultures such as Egyptian had this structure.
Ultimately as the education became more widespread church started to lose its influence. Although even today it tries to exercise its powers on political arena, and is still rich enough not to be ingored by business.
It is important not to mix religion and the institution of religion. The paladin wars were not really because Christ is better than Allah, or Jerusalem needed to be free. It happenned because Middle East had a lot of things which Western Europe of the time didn't have, but wanted. U can bomb Serbia in the name of democracy or kill all the "unfaithful" ones. These ideas are only planted in people's heads to give them a reason to fight, in reality it's more to do with power and money. Faith can be easily manipulated and exloited...Imagine if u let a travelling monk stay at your house, only to find out the next day u were robbed. The most bitter of your emotions is likely to be that your trust in faith had been betrayed.

to be continued.........

 

Fat Egg...give me ONE good reason to why God should not exist. Besides logic is just yet another god. Much more horrible things has been done in the name of the science than in Gods name. And I DONT think you'll find any christian or muslim who still thinks the crusades where in the name of God.
It was never about religion only power.

 

what i dont like is the way some countrys only teach a single religion up until GCSE level, they expect us to sit and listen to them preach, and they do preach, and then they expect us to read from the bible! they ask all those people who dont belive in christianity to repsect them, and so far i have, i dotn say prayers in assembly, but i dont talk, i pay my respect by not messing about while the christians pray, so i got sent to the headmaster and he tried to force me to pray even though i told him i didnt belive in jesus christ, he tried to force me to bow my head but i hit him, im in court in a month for Grevious Bodily Harm even though all i dont was break his nose, and in court we have to swear on the bible, the judge is gonna love me.....

 

I can see how you can say that logic is just another god, but at least it is a god we can see, feel, and use. If we traced the roots of religion, we'd find that spirituality was based on a combination of inner-fear and the impressionability of simplistic minds. By satiating the fear, ancient priests could control the masses and use them for their own benefit. How then is Christianity different? A man brings a new idea, gets some people to reinforce his position, speaks charismatically to "his" people, and removes the fear they have. He gives them hope, and in return he gains their faith. So far, no problem. He is little more than a kind politician. Then he up and gets his ass martyr'd. Now people go all fanatic-o and say that he died for a purpose. He died for what? To bind humanity to a church building? To dominate the minds of "his" people. IMO free will is "the" perfection. Unfortunately, it does not exist. Every decision is a reaction to infinite influences. Religion is just one of the more powerful. Logic has its own sphere of influence, and for some unknown reason the two are constantly at eachothers throats. I leave you with that, make whatever of it you wish...

Amon-Ra

*Serve the hive...
*We control- the way you move...

 

How can you even think that?! How can you say you know anything about christianity when you AREN'T CHRISTIAN?!!!
And besides christianity is not about legends or Adam or Eve. Its about philosophy.
Yes it has been used by the wrong people to
make people do what they where commanded.
But what about nuclear technology? The scientist's thought they where creating
a power source when they created a horrible weapon of destruction. Now that is what I call manipulation.

[This message has been edited by Divine Shadow (edited March 01, 2001).]