Religious Curiousity

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No, I didn't think they were all lost. Anyhow, all religions have a god. I am half-boudism and half-cristien. Boudism bows down to the big boudist and the incense for the incantations use smells awful! Cristien always seems to rely on God to do all the impossible things. I have been to church thrice and it was enough "I love God" sayings to last me a lifetime! That email address you mentioned? I hear He doesn't have internet yet, he's still old fashioned.

[This message has been edited by shadow_thief (edited August 04, 2001).]

 

Concerning the "if it can't be answered"-thing I meant that humans simply are too quick to think a thing doesn't exist if it can't be answered.
I don't think we are supposed to know them.
Humans can use all knowledge to destroys something with.
Everything is being demolished by "logic".
That means taking the Bible by it's words.
It's either science AND legends.
None of the scientist's considered it could be both.
When I said it was symbolic I meant 2 things: that the point were important.
And that it shouldn't be taken by its word.
Like that Adam were created of mud and Eve of a leg, or that they had those names.
It doesn't matter whether Jesus made miracles or not. He cured them anyway.
The reason I like the NT but dislike the OT
is just what Fjlotsdale pointed out...
Away with the petty aditions (probably the same additions that made the Bible a bloodbath) and emphasis on belief instead of fear.
Regarding the nature of evil:
Evil doesn't exist in any persons, although persons are capacle of doing evil things.
All other beings are what makes the Earth
work. Lions eat buffalo's. The lion dies and its "components" return to the earth wich means there are grass for the buffalo's to eat.
Humans however has no obvious place in the chain.

 

Well, yes they do. Humans kill kill animals to give themselves nutrients or they do it for the fun of it. Although that is illegal. If all the humans killed the chickens for meat, we would corrupt a part of the chain. If we took away all the flies and worms to get fish, then the birds would eventually die, and then all the bird eaters would eventually die. Therefore, we would've corrupted the entire chain just by taking away a type of animal/insect/water dwellers. So to say, we are a part of the chain.

[This message has been edited by shadow_thief (edited August 04, 2001).]

 

Part of a post by Sprite:
priests, prophets and gods are judged by entirely other standards and in fact are often admired for acts that would be considered evil if performed under other circumstances (e.g. torture, human sacrifice). Etc, etc,…

My reply:
Personally, I think they should live up to the standards they expect of the ‘laity’. That their standards are lower proves them unworthy of either admiration or worship!
Doing things that ‘only harm yourself’ are perceived by many as being morally ‘neutral’. Some things probably are. But others are not. For example, smoking has been proved to harm others who breathe your smoke. Additionally, smoking, alcohol and drug taking – including medicinal drugs – can harm your eggs/sperm, thus potentially causing the future conception of damaged babies; and babies already in the womb can also be harmed by those substances. Therefore, smoking, alcohol, and drugs are not morally neutral but can be harmful to others in some circumstances.
I am a bit in two minds regarding homosexuality and pre-marital sex. Both can pass on disease to another person. A woman may become pregnant with an unwanted baby; a man may find himself paying maintenance for a child he does not want; or an abortion may solve the problem by causing irrevocable harm to the unborn child. Morally neutral?
Gossip, rumour and unkind comments are most decidedly harmful – even if no one but the victims think so.
High fat food – depends on your health, really. But would your death cause distress or hardship to your family? Then damaging your own health is not really morally neutral, is it?


Divine Shadow?
Can I ask you a question? It is going to seem insulting, but it truly isn't meant that way. You see, you appear to have quite strong feelings about the bible, but some of the things you say make me wonder if you have actually read it. So, have you? And if so, was it a long time ago? Forgive me if I seem rude.

[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited August 04, 2001).]

 

Nay, you aren't being rude. The only reason I don't refer to the Bible is that I have never read and my dad has never bothered getting the Bible. All I have is 11 years worth of information stuffed into my head. My head's about to be crushed by all the know-it-alls though. *touch, touch* My head feels squishy already.

 

You are more likely to kill another person by driving a car than you are by smoking a cigarette. Does that make both smokers and drivers as evil as axe-murderers?

This is a rhetorical question, so don't bother answering it. My point has been proven: at least two people on this board disagree on the subject of what is good or evil, and therefore the idea that everyone has the same understanding of morality is clearly not true. These ideas must originate somewhere: religion, culture, parenting etc. And my own opinion is that religion is not inherently a worse vehicle than culture.

[This message has been edited by Sprite (edited August 05, 2001).]

 

Shadow Thief - I think you answered a question addressed to Divine Shadow, lol! Not that it matters!

And anyway, if you are 11, I wouldn't expect you to be that familiar with the bible. Do you have Religious education in school? If you are interested enough, and you have an RE teacher, maybe she could let you borrow a bible. Whatever you believe, it is always a good idea to have more knowlege of the bible (or anything else you are interested in!)than the other guys.
May I say that you seem like a pretty intelligent guy to me. I'd never have known you were only 11.


Hi,again, Sprite!
Ok, I won't comment on your rhetorical question

But I don't think there is all that much difference in viewpoint regarding good and evil. Of course there are cultural and religious differences, but the basic ideas of good and evil are the same.


[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited August 05, 2001).]

 

I do not go to katholic schools and I'm not going to read the Bible until I actually am interested in reading "We all love God". And for the last time:

I AM A F***ING GIRL!!!!!!!

 

Sorry! I haven't seen any post from you that says you are a girl, f***ing or virginal. I am female myself, but currently not f***ing. Bit old to bothered, frankly!
But I understand you not liking to have your gender mistaken. Though, personally, I like to be genderless on-line. Males treat you differently when they know you are female. I hate being patronised or treated with kid-gloves. Still, I've blown my cover now, haven't I? Sigh.

Two more things, Shadow Thief:
I reckon it is because you are a girl that you come over as intelligent for an 11yr old - girls generally being more mature than boys of the same age.
Second - arguing from second-hand information, which may be incorrect, is not a good idea. I like reading your views, but maybe you should not say that your information is based on stuff in the bible - and, yeah, I know I am a stupid old woman who should mind my own business! Comes of having been a librarian, I guess!

[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited August 05, 2001).]

 

Well, now that I know that you're a femal , then I should add another person to my 'Females in SP' list. Anyways, I do have 'I love God, and if you insult him, I will block you from my MSN list forever' people and yes I have heard a lot of info from them and that is direct, since they are katholic, go to katholic schools, and study katholic religions, I'm not getting second hand info. And if you read my earlier posts, I went to church 3 times, an hour and 15 minutes everytime. Plus the church benches were too uncomfortable to doze in, so therefore, I had to hear the minister drone on and on about god.

 

No offense taken Fljotsdale.
Of course I have read the Bible, though the content is different from person to person.
From what I know of you, you are older, another gender, from another country and isn't religious. Besides that the kinds of christianity you know seems to be catholic.
I'm a protestant and that's very different
(but I guess you have to be christian to see the difference).
No wonder we didn't read the same book!
Wait...actually it seems like you believe in God, but just don't like him/her.
That seems to be the number one reason many non-believers don't believe in him/her:
The Bible God is supposed to be good and wouldn't let all this happen. He/she can't exist.
And...don't be offended when treated differently than males.
Us guys just doesn't wan't to seem immature, especially not to the other gender.
Like you said, males are not as mature as females.

 

Hey, what's your first language, Shadow Thief? English speakers spell catholic with a 'c' instead of a 'k'. Are you Greek? Tell me to mind my own business if you don't want to say, ok?

Yes, I read your earlier post about church. I can see you found your visits VERY entertaining, lol!
But, not wishing to insult catholics in any way, I have generally found most of them very ignorant of the bible, so it many not be a good idea to rely on your friends for accurate info - though I don't suppose you REALLY care one way or the other, I guess!
I have a feeling I would enjoy meeting you - you are a couple of years older than my youngest grandson but you seem just as outspoken as he is!

Divine Shadow:

No, not catholic, though I was raised in a catholic family. Declared myself Atheist at age 15, became what I suppose might loosely be called 'protestant' at age 28, and was a practising christian for 25 years before going back to Atheism of a sort. My knowledge of the bible is considerable compared that of the average christian.

As to belief in god - some sort of 'creator', I don't know. That makes me Agnostic - but I am decidedly Atheist regarding the gods of the religions of this world. That is NOT a contradiction!
And no, I don't like the god of the bible - or any others I've read about. I believe him to be a human creation, with all the worst and best features of humanity exaggerated in him. I think all the gods worshipped in all religions are human constructs. You only have to read their holy books to see that! (Well, to be honest, I've only read bits of the others, not the whole lot).

I don't exactly get offended when males find out I'm female and start treating me differently - its just that you suddenly develop this faintly superior, patronising 'we must humour her, she's only a woman' tone. I hate it. 'Cos all of a sudden, no-one takes you seriously any more.
I shoulda kept my big mouth shut, lol!

[This message has been edited by Fljotsdale (edited August 06, 2001).]

 

LOL! Thx Fljotsdale! I'm flattered. I have heard that I am outspoken a bit too many times by my elders! Back to topic. I have found that my gr 8 friends seem to be extremely reliable on getting info from the Bible. One of the girls actually blocked me when I changed my nick name on MSN to 'Hell Angel'. She accused me of abusing God in many ways by those 2 words. Then she called me series of names which all led back to a sinner. Ah well, she blocked me then I deleted her off my list. So now I rely on 3 more God lovers.

 

Nothing wrong with being outspoken, Shadow Thief. I tend to be that way myself! The trick is to be outspoken without being unpleasant, I find. Being old also helps - you can get away with a hell of a lot more at my age than you can at yours! People just think I'm a bit peculiar due to age, lol! It can be great fun to say outrageous things. People's reactions are SO entertaining! I suppose I shouldn't really be telling you this... ah! but why not?

BTW - why do you hang out with 'god-lovers' if you don't like god? Do you enjoy arguing about religion with them? I do.

 

Oh course, on pg. 2 of this thing, I will quote again: 'I think I will join in too, since I like debates.' I like debates. I have a 14 year old brother and my, you should hear us! But then again...we can't help but fight. And that our dad tells us to shut up in a polite way.

 

Fljotsdale - I had spent all weekend composing an argument that would rock your world and convince you that the Christian Worldview is the only logically coherent worldview. However, now that I know that you are a female, I won't post it. Instead, I'll just tell you that it "feels" right to me, but that I don't want to start a brouhaha! (KIDDING!!! )

Seriously;
1) You're right, since women are the minority on this forum they do get treated differently. Don't let me, or anyone else, get away with that if you're not comfortable with it.

2) Back to the topic - I did spend some time this weekend thinking about these posts and wondering what I should write. Big Green Priest (or whatever he's called until Tal gets back) pretty much has articulated his position (the guy works for my old Theology professor! We should see eye to eye! )

I was taking communion last night, and this occurred to me. I am a sinner who desperately needs help if I am ever going to be even a little moral, charitable or loving. The tendencies of my soul are twisted beyond recognition. My life feels like it is being lived in exile. For any Bible buffs, I feel like Joseph, sold by his family and alone in prison trying to do good work and flee temptation.

Why do I believe in God? Beyond all the logic and debates (which I have gone through) He has condescended to enter into my twisted, shattered world and begin the process for making me straight. When guilt keeps me up all night, I can go to Him to hear a loving, "You're forgiven." When I leave Him and rebel, He is waiting for me with open arms. He is the Hound of Heaven who has pursued me, and by catching me has saved me from the shipwreck of a life that I have been carefully destroying.

Lets keep debating, for iron sharpens iron and I learn through your questions.

But lets also look beyond the debate, because God desires to be Known and Experienced.

 

Gee, you girls (heh, I almost said you "guys") really feel like you get treated differently? I have to say, while there are some places I found this to be true, it hasn't happened here, or at any of the other gaming sites I've visited. Usually I get a quick, slightly embarrassed: "You're a GIRL?!?" The people who already knew that snicker, and life goes on.

Usually, my login names tend to be androgynous, but that's just my preference and I don't mind if people know I'm female. The guys around here have never been condescending, and I definitely *don't* get treated with "kid-gloves." As far as I'm concerned, most of the teasing I get, I've totally left myself open for. It's all in good fun, right Miss Kitty?

Anyway, I hope you're not offended by anything/one, and as Mat says, if you *are* feel free to speak up. Nice to see some more women around here. Have fun!

 

Well, Darien, considering that you ARE a moderater, it's kind of hard to treat you like 'kid-gloves' because afterall, you could easily banned them. Plus, your name says it all, it would be the job of an idiot to tell you you're a guy.

 

Shadow, I was here for some months before becoming a moderator, and this is actually the only place I use both names. When I log into a chat as "Darien" most people think I'm a guy. (I'm guessing the female equivalent would be Darienne?)

Anyway, even posting as "Darien Noella" some people seemed to miss the obvious way back when. Right Tal?

 

Mathetais... "I am a sinner who desperately needs help if I am ever going to be even a little moral, charitable or loving. The tendencies of my soul are twisted beyond recognition."

Wow man, I used to think we didn't didn't see eye-to-eye on most things, now I think you're the type of guy that I'd like to go get drunk with at the local watering-hole!

Darien, no kid-gloves when it comes to you, because as I've stated before, your avatar scares the sh*t out of me for some reason.

I think I want to start a new thread about avatars that scare me.