Revised hell trials d/l question

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^^^
oooh your voluminous bull-throwing is only defeated by your spanking-monkey attack.

Anyone else get the feeling that both SimDing0 & Kuemper really enjoyed the evil god ending?

 

Bitter and sarcastic post about to begin... please skip if you may be offended.

I completely, whole-heartedly agree. As such I'm sure you do the same thing I do before I download or install everything: I decompile it to see what code it changes and then debug the entire thing because those dang modders can't be trusted and make notes on every change so that I can properly spend hours testing every change occurs exactly as described. Oh, what... you don't do this? Yeah, neither do I. I typically tend to go "The author just personally told me what it changes... and I was going to use the component anyway in different packaging... nah, I can't be bothered, definately just trying to trick me into adding 1 million HP goblins".

Where does UB change enemy AI? The others do of course make the game harder... though interestingly, I believe that's what all of Weimer's mods do... weird. I see a trend here. Mods that say "I make the game hard"... do. And mods that say "I make the game ____"... do that.

Last time I checked, a modder has 0 responsibility to do anything with their mod that they don't want to. Revised Hell Trials was given to Sim's mod and he has incorporated it into his mod. If you choose not to use his mod, in its 100% seperately installable components, that is a choice that the user has made. Additionally, modders appear to go to through a lot of trouble making mods compatibile with other mods so that you can use multiple different ones if you choose.

I applaud any modder that has the dedication that Sim has shown; he developed a similar group of changes and fixes to a product that we love and produced them at a high level and relatively bug-free. Sorry but if you don't like having to pick and choose individual components out of a single installer (because as mentioned, it's 1 install with no install order as there is 1 mod).

No. She got screwed over by certain mods and she has now every reason to not trust those mod writers. Not every mod ever. As an analogy, you do not say "Man, those writers wrote a lie in that book, I refuse to trust any writers ever" and then berat them for not doing what you want them to do. He provided a solution to her problem: download my mod, install the Revised Hell Trials (and only that section) and you will get an identical experience as if you had the standalone version... though likely with less bugs because it is still be updated.

I couldn't disagree with you any more Felinoid. Kuemper desired the Hell Trials component, which unfortunately is no longer available as a standalone package (I believe Sim was not the original author but I could be wrong and I apologize if I am). After being offered two very simple scenarios (recieve it from Fel or download the widely available Quest Pack and install the Revised Hell Trials 100% seperately from anything), the response was "Sorry, I don't care what you said your mod does, which of course you understand 100% better than I do and I don't care that you said that each section is seperate, because I don't believe you." This apparent distrust is due to previous bad experiences (which I can definately relate to)... however, she is placing complete faith on the seperate installer of the Revised Hell Trials, with no assurances from the author of that mod, as to what it changes. That is irrational.

And beyond that, I wish to thank you Kuemper for isolating a great modder on a site where many people enjoy mods. Please, by all means, keep asking for advice and ignoring it because of your mistrust. Maybe you'll hear me because I'm not a modder... or am I part of the great conspiracy to make your game impossibly hard by adding a thousand 1-million-HP goblins?

[ May 27, 2006, 02:41: Message edited by: UCLAEnigma ]

 

[glib] Would the 1,000 million hp goblins all be in the same place or scattered throughout Faerun?[/glib]

 

I think there's a problem in that over the past year or so a lot more people have begun modding, and have been dishonest or just lazy when documenting their changes. This then results in situations like those described above, where players stop trusting decent modders because of a group of people who either don't know really what they are doing, or are bundling undocumented changes with their mods to force people to play the games "their" way.

As a modder it is frustrating to be lumped in with the dishonest, as new players aren't sure which mods are really "trustworthy" or not. The large (and often conflicting) desires and opinions of players don't help the situation either, particularly as it can be tricky to know who is actually worth listening to.

You can trust Sim's mods. I'm not sure how I can add any credibility to my statement, but there you go.

 

Unavoidable god complex. "I am the creator of WORLDS!"

Well, I do. Or at least something very similar. I started with just using it on a "dummy" install on another computer and looking for things it might have changed. But once I got to understand WeiDU a bit better, now I just look through the TP2. Nothing touches my laptop until I'm sure of exactly what it is and what it'll do. My computer, my game, my rules.

Ah, but the separateness can be questioned. Is it really 100% separate, or did something slip through? (I'm betting it didn't, but still...)

Exactly. But it's not as extreme as you're making it out to be. Kuemper just doesn't trust mods that include AI changes, like the Quest Pack does. Better, worse, whatever, it still changes the AI that she's played with and enjoyed.

Wrong. She is placing faith in a mod that she has used before with no ill effects. What she won't place her faith in is a mod that outright admits that it includes AI changes not to have gotten at least one of those changes mixed in with another component. (Though I have to say there's not much AI to change in the RHT areas. Maybe Sarevok and the Pride Dragon, or the Selfish Demon, but that's about it.)

All in all, I think Andyr summed it up pretty well. There are more than enough reasons not to trust a modder you don't personally know. Instead, it is the unreasonably trusting who are the ones who should be labelled 'irrational'. I don't remember the Latin at the moment, but even in English it makes sense: "Buyer beware."

 

I really don't know what to say. Enjoy sticking with mods from three years ago? It always pains me to lose players, but it makes it a lot easier when the players are being silly.