Salvatore compared to Tolkien

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Khazraj -- Spellawho? The name is Spellbound, which by the way sounds a whole lot better than Spelladonna (which, if I had that nick, I wouldn't know whether to dose myself out or move to Italy).

Vargx -- I haven't had the benefit of reading your numerous posts, so please, enlighten me.

When I read a book, I read for entertainment, historical content and enjoyability. Whether an author builds on another author's ideas and can do them better or in a different way, in no way detracts from the reading experience (if it's a good one), at least for me. I don't compare the author's creations, just figure each has a different perspective and style. But, perhaps purists such as yourself, see reading in a different light, which is all well and good. I'm curious though...do you compare all associated authors to Tolkien, or is this honor reserved only for Salvatore? Also, I'm interested in learning what it is about Salvatore's writing that is so abhorent to you ...or is it just the mimickry of ideas that colors your opinion?

 

What is "abbhorent" about Salvatore's writing (don't go too far on judging me, as I've only read to books; my opinion is not very well-founded anyways) is that his characters do not seem very drawn out, and neither does the plot. The books themselves may be exciting, but I do not find the characters or the plot engaging or leave me wondering about things.

Describe Drizzt in five words. Most people will probably say, Scimitars, Drow, Ranger, Panther, and Exile. Which doesn't say too much about his personality or inner thoughts.

 

Hmmm... if you were to ask me to give you a 5 word summation, I would say: scimitars, introspective, self-deprecating, emotional purist, realist. Which, the last two by themselves, represent the dichotomy that embodies his character through the whole of DET.

 

Let me first start off by saying that I am a huge Tolkien fan. I am also a fan of Dragonlance. I've only recently begun delving into the Forgotten Realms books, begining with the Drizzt saga. But with reading the Crystal Shard, I was hooked.

Khazraj- I would rate Salvatore's books a 7. primarily because they are very quick, enjoyable reads. 90% of his books are non-stop action, not the descriptive storytelling/character building of Tolkien. While the characters are very believable and well presented, there is not much beyond Drizzt and his friends fight the bad guys. If you want to start the series, I would suggest checking out The Crystal Shard or possibly the latest The Thousand Orcs.

Now as far as I know, the Drizzt series was not based on any campain that Salvatore ran or participated in. He just created the Drizzt character and ran with him. The books were ment to sell the Forgotten Realms DnD campain and make people interested in playing the RPG. That selling point is why they have so much of the creatures, spells, items, etc that are used in the RPG.

C'Jakob- If you have not been introduced to the character's Artemis Entreri or Jarlaxle, then you are missing out on the two best characters in the entire Forgotten Realms. The only problem is that Drizzt always steals their thunder.
You wanted someone to describe Drizzt in five words? Ok how about five personality traits? Angst-filled, strong morals, loyalty to friends, determined, and whinner.

If I had to chose between a book telling the exploits of Drizzt or one telling the adventures of Jarlaxle and Artemis, I would take Jarlaxle and Artemis any day of the week. Drizzt is a great character, do not get me wrong, but after a while his whinning gets on the nerves. Every book Salvatore has to stick in that Drizzt complains abouth is heretge and how he's looked upon with fear and hatred. On the other hand, Jarlaxle is so much more interesting: a male drow that can covertly cause the matron mothers to do his bidding and that holds the most power in all of Menzoberranzan.

 

I don't agree.

I agree with you that Entreri and Jarlaxle are the best characters of the series (ranking above drizzt)

Drizzt is so not stealing their thunder, they have thunder of their own, and it's a huge lightning storm in my eyes

5 words to describe drizzt: emotional, lethal, reckless, passionate, friend.

Drizzt does so have a character, in the dark elf series (which is the best series IMO) he is being drawn out to the bone.

Now in the icewind dale trilogy that has become less, but none the less fun to read.

Same for the books after that, except for Starless nights, spine of the world and servant of the shard which stood out on their own.

Now the thousend orcs trilogy (first book just out) Salvatore goes back to the roots of the dark elf trilogy which is welcome change. Although I would have liked to see Jarlaxle and Entreri in a stand alone book.

 

Spellbound. I apologize for the mix up. There is another forum friend called Spelladonna that I have written with before. Dumb me assumed wrongly that you were one and the same...

I appreciate the way that you suggest I should look into his personality. I think that keeping this in mind will make the story more interesting.

C'Jacob. We'll see about his personality. I'll take Spellbound's advice and have a good read...

Jarlaxle. I'll check out The Crystal Shard. This is the beginning of the Icewind Dale Trilogy?

I borrowed Sojourn and The Legacy today to see how they are. I know Sojourn is last, but the library did not have the first ones.

I really love the IWD game so I am so curious about the storybooks...

I don't mean to be rude when I ask about age, I'm married with 4 kids, so you can guess mine! It's just that I remember that when I read LOTR first time I was 13. I didn't really get it and I liked it but I was bored but I...

Now I read it again and I see the writing style, the language use and emotion. And I even cried in places when reading it. I don't remember doing that the first time!

So I hope that I have some reading maturity and that I will read Salvatore's books with an open mind and enjoy the story, not that there is a guarantee of that...

Let's see... I'll be back...

 

Khazraj -- I hope you enjoy the Dark Elf Trilogy! But if there's any way you can start with the first book, Homeland, you should. It really lays out the story from the time of Drizzt's birth. It's the one book where you get a real sense of the drow way of life...way of thinking. I bought them on Amazon, through SP....they weren't very expensive at all and well worth the background info you get (you can even get them used, I believe.) In my opinion, you really need the first book to understand the development of the Drizzt character fully.

I can't wait to get into the Icewind Dale Trilogy (it's sitting on my table), but I have to finish The Chronicles first (by Weis and Hickman), which is another spellbinder for me! If you get a chance check that one out too!

 

I said five words. Not phrases or two words hyphenated together. But whatever. Enjoy, Khazraj.

While I can't compete with everyone else's arguments for Salvatore, I will say that it is likely that you will not find anything extremely deep or insightful about life in general. If that were the case, children'd be reading Drizzt novels instead of Lord of the Flies or Catcher in the Rye. But I suppose it's not like that's expected of a fantasy work, but it is what deviates them from what people consider, erm, classic works.

 

You missunderstand, the question isn't really whatever you should read Salvatore or not, the question is if you have read the Dune books or not

Seriously, those books are the best ever made. I was never into Sci-fi but those books changed that. Best fantasy series ever written, beats even Tolkien because there is more depth in it. Try the first one at least, and don't stop reading if it gets boring in the beggining, Ive never heard of anyone who's read the books and doesn't like them.

 

Though they both write in the same genre, the question relating to Salvatore and Tolkien is a bit like apples and . . . . lobster. Their goals are different, their audiences are different and their styles are different. Tolkien wrote for adults, and I would classify Bob as more of a young adult writer -- he might very well be capable of the plot, description and symbolic power of Tolkien, but his writing in the FR setting does not display talent of that level. Tolkien was a scholar and a poet. Bob is a writer who does it for the money -- no shame in that, but that's the way I see it.

BTW, I am nearly 30, if that helps.

 

C'Jacob -- Surely you jest? You don't consider a hyphenated word such as "self-deprecating" and "angst-filled" as a valid "word" descriptor?? I must apologize then; please excuse my liberties.

 

Spellbound. I have begun the Legacy. It makes sense on its own but because I "know" about Drizzt having a beginning it nags me. I am simply going to have to look for it elsewhere. The main reason that I find Amazon...difficult, 1 book is US $10 bucks which is about AUS$25 plus postage of about US$20 so a single book via Amazon is about $50 and I um.... you know what I mean...

When you do get the Icewind Trilogy let me know about it. Have you played the IWD game (like the Baldur's Gate ones)? I loed it.

Is Chronicles the original Dragonlance with Raistlin and his twin? I really did not enjoy them as a 13 year old, so I can't imagine enjoying them now...

Weis and Hickman are better authors?

C'Jacob.

You got me on this one..."it is likely that you will not find anything extremely deep or insightful about life in general" Do you mean Drizzt's life or mine own?

Pyro. Ok, ok, on the "to do" list now. Give me some tidbits first though

Depaara and all.

I have read now about the first 50 pages of The Legacy. I won't say that it is drivel, but I am not overawed either. If I wanted that I would go read something more spiritual.

I have found some parts of the story very interesting, especially in describing the drow and Underdark, but things that make the story "fit" into the DND Forgotten Realms, is a bit..."fabricated" (laboured?) It is alright, but I find the combat scenes a little bit...mmmm.... I guess that these are the focus and Tolkien did not focus on this so much as the whole story. Still, I have hardly read anything so I won't rate it yet.

I did find the repeated use of "magical" to describe weapons and items a little predictable. Some of the images and descriptions of characters fit into DND word for word, eg "Veirna's clerical powers". It's not bad in itself, but I did not expect that it would match DND so glovelike. Not that it detracts from the story in any way I just feel that it limits author's creativity to fit it into DND "word for word" rather than more generally.

I am really hoping that it does not degenerate to the lame memories that I have of Dragonlance. That I can't stomach and my opinion of Drizzt & Co. and Salvatore will collapse if it does.

I did notice quite a lot of personality and "inner" thoughts within Drizzt, especially. He seems almost as interesting (not read that much, remember?) as Solaufein from BG2. Let's see.

Another thing I found odd was the expectation that all dwarves and things dwarven is somehow Scottish. The supposed accent of Bruenor is quaint and of course true to the author's depiction of the character. I don't imagine dwarves this way, but it not invalid for a character.

I prefer the "mature"(?) speech of Gimli. He has such a way with words especially with Galadriel. Bruenor does not know how to speak to other creatures in comparison. But, that is Bruenor. He's meant to be that way.

So far, so good. I hope that it will be alright to the end.

 

Ahh, the sweet words of Tolkien. This the first time ive been in here, because i ususally stick to the game forums. im actually surprised, as books seem to be a great forte of mine.

Salvatore, i read about 30 pages of his first drizzt book (the legacy?)and found it boring. No offence, i did actually read the dragonlance series, chronicles and war of twins, heroes, and the legend of huma, but come on. They are just a module made into a book. I really wonder if Salvatore played drizzt through a home made module, and created his book, like Weis and Hickman did.

If you really want a good fantasy read, dont read the dragonlance or drizzt books. They are too teeny. That is my opinion, but then, i was reading George R R Martin at 11. Im 16 now, and i can only say that the ADnD books dont have that originallity that other books do. I love the idea of a new world, new continent, instead of old Faeruen again and again.

The Wheel of Time gives a great spin to fantasy, as does George R R Martins Storm Of Swords series. Out of ten, i rank the 30 pages of Salvatore i read about a 3. Tolkien, 10; its the original. WOT, 9. VERY good. George RR Martin, 10. Compares directly to LoTR. Read it.

Anyway,
Cheers.

 

Hmm... Well, I actually like the concept of one world and sticking to it. I've only read Homeland from Salvatore, and granted, it's a lot lighter to read than Tolkien. But I find it refreshing. I've been reading Tolkien, Jordan, Irvine and writers of the like since I was 14, and I find it a nice change of pace. (Especially from Jordan who just can't seem to get on with the storyline.)

Sure it isn't as good, but less fun to read? No. Both types of writing have their pros and cons. It depends on what my mood/time available is.

 

Ther Dark Elf Trilogy is wonderfuly brilliant, thats a total of three good books!

 

One of the basic differences between Tolkien and RAS is that RAS writes about individuals in a small part of a large world; their deeds matter only in small-to-medium scale. with Tolkien, the fate of the world if not the Universe (wee see you, Morgoth! ) was at stake. This is one of the fundamental différences between their books. If Drizzt had been sacrificed to Lolth in the first place, so what? Had Faerun been wiped out, enslaved by darkness for milennia and so forth? I don't think so. But had the felloship failed...

Salvatore is an individualist, and his books are fast reads.

More to follow.

(Legolas, come down from that tree this instant!)

 

I must say that the books are well written in that they keep your attention and make you always ask questions about the plot and, and, and...

But I also found some of the writing corny. When Drizzt is stealthily attacking some goblins, that is well writing because it is highly descriptive. A+ I did find the other battle writings less so and so they felt..."corny".

I don't like the way that dwarves are depicted. If you read my other post about Gimli you would know what I mean, but I can live with Bruenor and co warts and all. They are meant to be that way.

Arabwel. I agree with what you say about the story plot but for me I am more interested in the actual writing style. I like having to reach for a dictionary while reading Tolkien. I can't say that I need to do so with Salvatore. Sometimes I feel that it is not as fluently expressed as it could be. Perhaps.

I also note some "Americanisms" in the text, but hey, you gotta expect that. I just see them because I don't use them... (So what!)

I also liked the relative maturation of Tolkien's story over time, so that is also what I will look out for in Salvatore.

And I am beginning to agree that Jarlaxle is a very intriguing character...

 

If Salvatore writes for Americans...is the implication that Tolkien wrote for the grander consciousness? I thought all authors did that?

[ March 14, 2003, 15:59: Message edited by: Spellbound ]