'Shoot first law' in Florida

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edit: Nevermind, question was answered in the post already.

Actually, I do have a different question: how much did that thing cost? Idle curiosity, of course

[ October 26, 2005, 20:01: Message edited by: AMaster ]

 

As to the law in Florida, it simply means that outside of your home, you no longer have to wait until injury is done to you. Now, if you are in fear of your safety, it is not illegal to use deadly force to counter (this does not apply to guns exclusively)
It will still be investigated if it happens, but it does not cause an automatic arrest like it used to.

 

Taluntain,all you have to do is look at when florida passed their ccw laws and the sudden increase in the number of foreign tourists being mugged and robbed.This was a direct result of the crimanals not knowing if a resident was armed or not,whereas most(if not all foreign tourists were unarmed). It made national news due to the sudden increase.

Aldeth, i don't know where you got your stats because only 4 states ban concealed carry , 10 have restrictions on it and 36 are either shall issue or may issue states.

Felinoid, i don't know what state you are from(if you are in the US) , but here in N.C. you have to use a gun permit to buy a pistol at a gunshow just like at a gunstore. Also just like a gunstore purchase,the call in a ncic verification to buy a rifle if you do not want to use one of your gun permits on the rifle. Most people do this becuase you only get up to 3 gunpermits at a time(you can get 5 if you state that you building a collection). It also varies county to county as to how long it takes to get your permits. My county takes 3-4 days , while the neighboring county takes 3-4 weeks! Also our sheriff will approve class 3 permits whereas the neighboring county's sheriff will only approve for one of his friends or law enforcement.(this is a fact as i know 11 officers who have class 3 weapons in that county and know of 2 individuals who moved to the county and could not get a permit even though they had exemplary backgrounds.

 

Ummm... yeah. I'm not sure what exactly you're talking about with "my statistics" but I never implied that it was impossible to get a permit to carry a concealed handgun, or suggested that most states do not issue one. Most of the states require you to state some reason though for wanting to carry a concealed weapon, and that reason has to be at least minimally better than "I want one." Sorry if I implied in some way that it was impossible to get a concealed weapon permit.

 

Aldeth, sorry i didn't mean to sound so harsh in my previous post. I was just answering the statement about most people not being able to get a concealed carry permit. Also, in N.C. as well as all of the states that have reciprocal ccw laws with n.c. there is no requirement as to why you wish to have a ccw permit. here you have to take an 8-10 hour course(usually offered at the nearest gun range) that covers the basic safe handling of firearms ,as well as the legal requirements as to using your firearm to defend/protect yourself and others. Then you have to go to your local sheriff's office and get them to take and submit to the FBI 2 sets of fingerprint cards and wait for them to issue the ok(this has averaged about 3-4 months)after that you go back to the sheriff's office to pay the fee and get your ccw permit. Kind of weird but a ccw only allows you to carry firearms concealed
but not a knife! (really weird) also if you have ever been to a store and seen one of those little tags in the window that reads "no weapons allowed" ?,well if you enter such a marked business WITHOUT a ccw permit and a concealed weapon it is a misdemeanor but WITH a ccw it is a felony ( a case of the law stating that you should have known better since you had to go to class to learn where you can and cannot carry). Again i do apologise if i came off to strongly in my first post to you.
taluntain, a good reference to show just what happens when ccw permits are allowed is the book (and the research materials used for it) more guns,less crime by john lott. it shows empirical evidence that when the populace has the right to carry concealed that there is less crime across the board(murder,rape,assault,robbery,home invasion) even the justice departments own statistics show that firearms are used to halt 2.5 - 3 million criminal acts/year from happening. I personally know 3(yes 3!) women who have stopped assaults and/or rape attempts to themselves through the use of a firearm(carried legally concealed on their persons) As all of them have stated,they would have pulled the trigger if they had to. luckily enough, the mere sight of the firearm and the determination to use it if needed was enough to stop the criminals and cause them to flee.
weird little tidbit on the law,in N.C. your house is considered your safe zone i.e. if someone breaks in,you can shoot them to protect yourself and/or anyone else present,while in S.C. your entire PROPERTY is considered your safe zone(geez, if you have 2-3(or more)acres of land thats a heck of a safe zone!

 

Taluntain, i am not saying that if everyone had a firearm that there would be any less crime(as i hope that you don't think that if all guns were outlawed there would be any less crime). what i am trying to illustrate is that, contrary to what the anti-gun groups would have you believe, it is not the gun committing the crime and that far more of them are utilized to help even out the force equation between a woman,elderly person, etc. vs 1 or more individuals that are more prone to violent activities. Personally, i can not even begin to imagine how someone can blame an inanimate object for someones actions. I freely admit that i am one of the "gun nuts" that sarah brady and her ilk like to try to demonize all of the time, that is her right and i would do nothing to prevent her from exercising that right. From everyone of your posts on the subject that i have seen, it appears that you are of the opinion that firearms are a bad thing to have in a civilised society.? I hope that this is the correct impression. Having a history in the gun culture and a past in law enforcement, i can tell you from personal observation that if every gun on the planet was destroyed tonight at midnight, that the crooks would have built an improvised one by 1am. Firearms are not the problem , personal responsibility and education are. As you may have noticed from my extremely low post count, i spend a lot of time lurking and just observing(had an earlier account when i was on aol but lost access to all of my info due to an apt fire). Completely off-topic but there used to be a poster who went by cog on the board years ago, is he still around under a new persona?

 

This appeared on another thread, and I wanted to make a point about this regarding Jefferson. How many here would like us to dismantle the US military? No hands raised, I did not think so.

Jefferson believed that a standing professional army was a threat to liberty. This flies in the face of all those who believe that a standing army "keeps America free." He thought that citizens should be armed because they would be safe guarding America's defense. Thusly, they needed to be ready to form the militia that ward off attacks by foreign powers. Here are a few more Jefferson quotes:

"Bonaparte... transferred the destinies of the republic from the civil to the military arm. Some will use this as a lesson against the practicability of republican government. I read it as a lesson against the danger of standing armies." --Thomas Jefferson to Samuel Adams, 1800. ME 10:154

"The Greeks and Romans had no standing armies, yet they defended themselves. The Greeks by their laws, and the Romans by the spirit of their people, took care to put into the hands of their rulers no such engine of oppression as a standing army. Their system was to make every man a soldier and oblige him to repair to the standard of his country whenever that was reared. This made them invincible; and the same remedy will make us so." --Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814. ME 14:184

"It is nonsense to talk of regulars. They are not to be had among a people so easy and happy at home as ours. We might as well rely on calling down an army of angels from heaven." --Thomas Jefferson to James Monroe, 1814. ME 14:207

"Standing armies [are] inconsistent with [a people's] freedom and subversive of their quiet." --Thomas Jefferson: Reply to Lord North's Proposition, 1775. Papers 1:231

"There are instruments so dangerous to the rights of the nation and which place them so totally at the mercy of their governors that those governors, whether legislative or executive, should be restrained from keeping such instruments on foot but in well-defined cases. Such an instrument is a standing army." --Thomas Jefferson to David Humphreys, 1789. ME 7:323

Given Jefferson's dislike of standing armies it's easy to see why he believed that American citizens needed the "right to bear arms." And why it was important that the government put no restraints on its citizens in this regard. I felt it was necessary that Jefferson's remarks be seen in their proper context. They are, in part, why the "right to bear arms" is in the Bill of Rights to the Constitution. I'm not arguing that Jefferson is right or wrong, only that his point should be more clearly drawn regarding the contitutional rights on this issue.

[ November 02, 2005, 07:19: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

I beg to differ, an armed society is a scared society.

It's not hard at all, it just isn't legal, that's all. There are special stores where you can legally purchase rifles, but you need A) a permit B) proof you belong to some sort of hunting/shooting organisation, and C) an awful lot of patience, it will take like forever until you get all of the above through the authorities. That's why 90% of all firearms here were purchased on the black market. It's much easier, faster, and cheaper.

 

Taluntain, yes i do have stats for my posts. they are from the dept of justice and the fbi UCR program(Uniform Crime Reporting). firearms are used in 42%, knives and other weapons 18% and plan old strong-arm bluffing in 40%!!. as to your uzi comment, there are very few of them around, the only ones i have seen(other than a few in military and foreign military units) have been in the hands of gang-bangers and organised crime members. Most serious gun people don't like the uzi for the simple fact it is a spray and pray weapon. your just pulling the trigger and hoping to hit something. sorry, i'll give you 6 guys with uzi's and me with my benelli shotgun, at more than 10 yards i will come out the survivor everytime. Just having a gun doesn't mean you have the ability yo use it. It's very different when you are part of a military unit and are firing at a faceless enemy as apposed to being face to face with someone within 7 yards and having to pull the trigger(trust me, it changes you a lot.)most people(including a large percentage of crooks) don't have it in them to take that final step, most hope that the sight of the weapon(be it gun,knife,club,whatever) is enough to gain compliance with their demands. Sorry,as i was taught, you never draw a weapon until you have the full intention to use it immediately. If history is an example every major mass murder by a government has followed the disarming of the citizenry. i guess taluntian, that you and i will never agree on this subject because my beliefs are based on personal experience.Oh yeah the state of vermont does not have any type of restrictions as to gun ownership while the neighboring state of new hampshire has very restrictive laws, guess which one has greater crimes in every category.