1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

Should Government be more or less?

Discussion in 'Alley of Lingering Sighs' started by Nakia, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. Nakia

    Nakia The night is mine Distinguished Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Media:
    102
    Likes Received:
    136
    Gender:
    Female
    I agree on points one and two. As for UHC my vote is not decided yet. Our Federal government can't even straighten SS or Medicate out. States have implemented various programs to help those who cannot afford health insurance. If we expect perfection from institutions created and run by human beings we are doomed to be disappointed. Let the states decide what is best for them.
     
  2. Darkwolf Gems: 18/31
    Latest gem: Horn Coral


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    0
    Someday when you or someone you love needs bypass surgery ASAP, and there is a good chance that every day they wait they could very well die, and the Dr's tell you that they are really sorry but they legally have to wait in line, and the line is 6 months long, tell me then how much you favor UHC. This happens all the time in Canada. You know what they do? They come south to get their surgery done.

    I wonder if former Presidents will have to wait in the same line? Remember President Clinton's emergency bypass surgery that was done within hours of his diagnosis...bet he would still get it just as fast, while the rest of us waited in line, but then some pigs are more equal than others (no I didn't call Clinton a pig, sorry if you don't get the reference). Maybe we will be able to get our surgery south of the border as well...or probably the trend of offshoring expensive medical procedures will become very lucrative indeed.
     
  3. AMaster Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,495
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    50
    I'm curious as to why you folks think organized labor is more effective vs. capital than government is.
     
  4. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    Yes, and now you need another stay in the hospital for the second heart attack you have once the good doctors hand you the $50,000.00 plus bill for their services.
     
  5. Montresor

    Montresor Mostly Harmless Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Messages:
    3,103
    Media:
    127
    Likes Received:
    183
    Gender:
    Male
    In Denmark, too. Last year's scandal, which cost one medical director his job (but apparently not much more), was the disclosure of a number of cases where people had died on waiting lists, while waiting their turn for radiation treatments for cancer! Unfortunately, getting to an American hospital isn't as easy for us as it is for Canadians.

    At least three of my mother's siblings had to go to Norway for heart bypasses. The waiting period in Denmark was too long.

    If you die on the waiting list, you don't have to pay the medical bill. :hahaerr:
     
  6. Darkwolf Gems: 18/31
    Latest gem: Horn Coral


    Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    0
    Exactly...that is why we need a new solutions. Why are we going to try something that has already failed? Repeating the same action and expecting a different result is a sign of an unsound mind.
     
  7. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    DW - That, I can agree with! :)

    As fortune would have it, this appeared in the headlines today:

    Yes, a woman died on the floor of a hospital ER as nurses and healhcare workers stood by and watched. That's not the norm, but nevertheless it happens here ...

    [ June 14, 2007, 03:20: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]
     
  8. Taluntain

    Taluntain Resident Alpha and Omega Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Resourceful Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) BoM XenForo Migration Contributor [2015] (for helping support the migration to new forum software!)

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2000
    Messages:
    23,653
    Media:
    494
    Likes Received:
    570
    Gender:
    Male
    We've had a case make the headlines a few days ago when a man who's come to the ER because of severe respiratory problems died in the hall a few minutes later. He was apparently sent to another part of the building for forms that he needed to fill out before any doctor would look at him. Unbelievable carelessness like that happens everywhere from time to time.
     
  9. Blackthorne TA

    Blackthorne TA Master in his Own Mind Staff Member ★ SPS Account Holder Adored Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!) New Server Contributor [2012] (for helping Sorcerer's Place lease a new, more powerful server!) Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2000
    Messages:
    10,415
    Media:
    40
    Likes Received:
    232
    Gender:
    Male
    This was in the LA Times last month some time; it took place at King-Harbor hospital that has been extremely troubled for a long while and has somehow avoided having the plug pulled and federal funding cut off for numerous repeat code violations and failures to improve.

    Not that it's any excuse, but just as an explanation of how something like that could happen in a hospital setting: Apparently the woman was somewhat belligerent, had been to the ER three times in the previous three days, had been given pain medication and a doctor's appointment, and had just been released from the ER again hours before. So, I guess the staff just thought she was a nuisance and wasn't in as much pain as claimed.

    Again, I'm in no way trying to excuse what happened, especially given how poor King-Harbor has been operating. I just can't understand why it's still allowed to remain open.
     
  10. AMaster Gems: 26/31
    Latest gem: Diamond


    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2000
    Messages:
    2,495
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    50
    As far as UHC, this seems relevant.

    The biting bit: ""With universal [health care], you’d get the same kind of mediocre ****tiness that you’d get in all other kinds of standardized approaches. But for millions of people, that would be a big upgrade."
     
  11. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    As Darkwolf points out, the current system is breaking down. But that does not mean that UHC is THE solution - it may be an option, given the way things are declining, but there may be other solutions that would be more agreeable. There needs to be a debate about other options.

    As for the old saw about the "Fouding Fathers" wanting this or that - they did not want a standing, professional army maintained by the federal government either. Do we have one anyway?
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.