Should the law get rid of dangerous dogs?

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yeah, cos Banning drugs and guns did a good job of keeping them off our streets. The majority of pitbull attacks are unlicensed dogs. A dog bite is a dogbite is a dogbite, the media coverage is disproportionare as it looks at fatal bites which lets face it are very very few. On the other hand there are thousands of people admitted to hospital every year with serious dogbites which survive, many are horribly scarred physicaly and emotionally. Some in my local area include:

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Surgery-dog-bite-girl/story-12392893-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Dog-bit-girl-3-destroyed/story-12414083-detail/story.html (this one you cant help but feel sorry for the dog)

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Father-s-horror-dog-attack/story-12467099-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Father-s-horror-dog-attack/story-12467099-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/muzzle-dogs-plea/story-12420459-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/N...-killed-dogs/story-12433985-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/E...ling-station/story-12448880-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Girl-8-left-scarred-dog-attack/story-12408322-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/P...ull-mastiffs/story-12384425-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/H...l-s-injuries/story-12419628-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/W...ark-dog-bite/story-12444120-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/C...le-Morriston/story-12422060-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Dad-demanding-dogs-bite-horror/story-12440070-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/G...stic-surgery/story-12440780-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Mauling-prosecution/story-12426945-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/R...year-old-boy/story-12407273-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Owner-court-dogs/story-12456870-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/stray-dog-s-double-attack/story-12439724-detail/story.html

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Vicious-dogs-left-roam-street/story-12465509-detail/story.html ~coughs~

I could keep going

we ban assult rifles because they serve no logical purpose to a law-abiding citizen, they are totally useless for home protection due to their size and weight, and their rounds pose significant threat to innocent bystanders.

Now a pitbull, in the hands of a loving, caring and above all capable owner can be a great family pet.

 

http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/cruelty_database/statistics/pit_bulls_vs_non_pit_bulls.php

Pitbulls, who are responsible for the most fatal bites and attacks, are also at the highest risk of abuse. I've yet to see credible evidence that pitbulls are more naturally inclined to be agressive outside of circumstances.

LKD- you're absolutely right about the stray cat population, we have them all over the pittsburgh region. A few even followed me home and became friendly house pets

 

The pitbulls and similar breeds don't serve any logical purpose either. If you want companionship, guard, anything except fighting and any other breed is better. I am all for blaming the owners and these owners will find other breeds to wreck but hopefully it will be slightly harder and the damage caused by a wrecked dog slightly less.

The one positive thing with these "killer" dogs is that my favourite breed German Shepherds has lost some popularity among criminals and other people who want to feel big.

 

While a few people have advocated for getting rid of them completely, most people - including myself - have not. The restrictions I'm talking about are keeping them in fenced in areas, and not having them be unsupervised (unless they're in your house of course).

I'm pretty sure you need a special license to do that. I can't go buy a puma if I feel like it. And even if you are licensed you DO have to keep them locked up in a cage.

I'm sure that's true, although I don't think there's any reasonable steps we can take to get rid of bees, hornets, and poisonous spiders. We can with dogs and dog owners.

 

UK you need a license for most venomous snakes, some tarantulas and all non-native large cats... Though the non-native does seem rather redundant in the wording I must admit Unless they expect you to go out and catch the wild cats that have escaped over the years to clean up in lieu of the wildlife trust doing it.

 

I would say that it does indeed matter. The reason I got a Rottweiler and not a Labrador or a Chiwawa is because I think they're the most gorgeous dogs. When I'm walking my Rottie, people will very often stop me and compliment the dog. And if there's a ban, I couldn't have another Rottie because some idiots don't have a clue how to raise one? That, to me, is complete bull.

Baning is the easiest answer, yes. But so is eliminating alcohol in reducing drunk driving. Instead, I believe there should be better education and law enforcing. Like I said before, why not make a mandatory training class and license, spot check inspections on living conditions, ect, on breeds we deem dangerous? It would make a whole lot more sense.

Good points!

Not necessarily. I know people who love Pittbulls and their dogs are great pets. It's all how they are raised and treated. In fact, someone earlier in the thread talked about dog attacks where the pet came from a loving home. Sometimes that is the problem. People raise their pets like they're kids. But they're not, they're animals. A dog does not understand compassion. Either you're boss or he is. The trainers I talked with all say the most important things for a dog are : 1. Exercice, 2. Discipline, 3. Love. Love is behind discipline, not first. That's something a lot of people miss. A strong leadership and a lot of exercice will keep the dog in line.

 

How's this for timely

 

Triactus, if you want a loving companion why would you want a pitbull (I use the term loosely to describe a group of breeds here bred for fighting)? I am sure that if you knew what you were doing you could have a great chance of turning it into a wonderful dog but why put yourself through the extra work and the chance that if your puppy turns into a psycho it can wreak great havoc? The only reason I can see is to be "cool" and "dangerous". I have lived my entire childhood with dogs, I am pretty good with dogs and if I am looking at a personal level the only breed I have an issue with is rottweiler as a relative had two who were not fond of children and who lounged at me several times when I was a child. Yet I do not want to see them banned as they are not bred purely for fighting. I agree with you that the owners are at fault, I agree with you that some kind of license would be nice but if we allow any idiot to get and raise children do you really think it would be feasible to control every dog owner out there? Much easier to ban a few breeds if only to make a point. Hell, if I am to be completely honest what bugs me the best in this issue is that people who shouldn't have a stuffed dog get themselves a fighting dog and then go on and on about how wonderful and nice it is and they didn't get it to look like big men at all. Jeez, if your penis is that small get a red sports car like the rest of us. Do not get a dog you can't handle just to see it snap, hurt someone or something and then be put down to pay for your sins (using the general you here so not aimed at you Triactus).

 

I'm sure someone will find a way to blame the owner for this one, too.

...or get an iPhone. They're cheaper.

 

You had me until the dis on the iPhone.

 

That's a pretty sad reason to buy a dangerous dog.

Of course it is the owner's fault. When you have a dog that was bred to fight and treat it like a household pet you simply cannot prevent it from returning to its breeding. That's like taking in a wolf as a pup and believing it will never attack just because you gave it a loving environment. There is no logical thought process in an animal, the animal doesn't think, 'Wow, this person loves me so I'll resist the urge to fight when they show their teeth to my face.' A dog will simply do what its instincts tell it to do.

 

A sad reason? I chose a Rottweiller because I think it's the most beautiful breed of dog. What the else am I going to base my choice on? If his gases smell or not?

A couple months ago in Ottawa, a small dog bit off a woman's nose in a store. Any dog is dangerous. In fact, any *animal* is dangerous. Yes, a Rottweiller has a lot more power than a Shih-Tzu. That is why, as I said, it takes more work and more supervision than other breeds.

And no, it's not about love. As I said before, if you provide enough exercice and enough discipline on the dog, combined with a caring environment, the chances of an attack are astronomically reduced.

People are often excited to show the statistics of the number of dog attacks (which, as damedog pointed out, are not black and white). I would be a lot more curious to know the number of registered dogs versus the number of attacks.

 

yes actually, as the male was not neutered and was in the presence of a female it was most liklely sexual aggression which prompted the attack, any responsible dog owner castrates their dog. The second pitbull, the female, was found cowering in the corner.... wow, killing machine.

 

That was my first thought as well. A neutered dog doesn't have all the hormones an intact dog has. That is why I neutered mine as soon as I was able. Even then (I think he was three months old), I saw a difference in behavior before and after the operation. The only drawback is my male dog pees like a girl... (Male dogs raise their legs to pee because of a hormone thing)

And I also believe it should be mandatory. Registered breeders should be the only ones to have intact male and female. Then, you're sure of the quality of the breed and make a dent in the number of stray dogs.

 

I would never want to have a neutered male dog, if I can't handle my dog with balls I shouldn't have it. Having a neutered rottweiler is like having a shi-tzu or something. This is based mostly on emotion but to me neutering your animal is turning it from an individual into an object. You turn a person into a furry, moving, eating, *****ing pillow. Since I am not a cat person I don't mind it much there and the fact that cats tend to run around everywhere but a dog you can control or should be able to control.

My stepmother has an extremely unpleasant female dog, she is a german shepherd and I wouldn't leave anyone who isn't very familiar alone with her. She might be the most viscous unreliable dog I have yet to encounter but she has only attacked people twice both were times when people had entered the enclosed yard when the family wasn't at home. I do not spend as much time at my dads nowadays and they have lots of dogs and I can't always differentiate them all by sight and two summers ago I went there when they weren't at home and a female german shepherd came to greet me and I was quite worried as I thought it was the unpleasant one but it was one of the nice ones who had managed to literally climb over a two metre fence. My point with this is that I might think it could have been a good idea to put this dog down (my step mother has a track record of unreliable dogs) but even as vicious as she is she never gets a chance to do anything bad cause they do not let her. They do not let little children go and pet her and they do not let her run free where there are people around and of course that my dad and my step mom can actually control her when they are present. Even so the worst she has done is try to hamstring people and nibble them in the butt so they leave the property, no one has been hurt.

Imagine that mindset on a pit-bull and less strong and experienced handlers? It would be a blood bath. Anyway I think my point is after all this rambling is that neutering your dog is like buying a Ferrari and then replacing the engine with one from a Smart car. You get the looks, you get the cuddliness but you do not get the real deal, the real personality and if you can't handle that it might be a better idea to just buy the Smart car.

 

Some people on here have mentioned the importance of exercise and discipline in the training of a big dog, and they're absolutely right. If you don't show your dog that you are the dominant one than they assume that they are, or they try to dominate you by things like mounting. If you let them think that they're dominant, than they have the right to enforce pack rules on you, by biting the head and neck. This can account for some of the attacks on children and the like, as they usually see themselves as above them. The way to avoid this is to give the dog the same privileges as you do your child, like allowing it to be on the furniture, being by the table during dinner, etc.

The problem with articles as evidence in this debate is that they are usually sent out as a story before a proper investigation has been concluded, and thus doesn't provide us with any factual answers as to what actually happened. And seriously, if a person was abusive or negligent to their dog, would they really admit so to a reporter? Animal abuse is a crime and if someone died there's always the possibility of being charged with involuntary manslaughter, so don't take a persons statement of good treatment at face value.

We also seem to assume that the only reason to have a pitbull is to compensate for a lack of man parts, but I question that assumption. Sure, there are certainly people who do just that, but the main reason friends and family of mine have pitbulls is because they are so prevalent in the dog pounds, and they get killed so often (http://happypitbull.com/get-one/overpopulation/). So bleeding hearts like us, who like to rescue our animals instead of getting newborns, often end up with them.

I know a lot of people with rescued pitbulls who never get attacked, because by being responsible they know the basic disposition of the dog before they bring it home, they know dog behavior and body language, have the time to exercise and discipline it properly, and also know when they were wrong, the dog has a dangerous side, and needs to be brought back to the pound. I've also yet to see evidence of this "attacking at utter random" phenomenon, but i'm open to some proof, though I couldn't find anything in my searches. It seems like it's just an excuse for not understanding a dog or canine behavior and psychology in general.

 

Uh, no. The neutered dog will be less dominant and thus calmer, but that doesn't mean *at all* that it is calm. Came play with my dog, by all means. You'll see what I mean... And my parents have a Yorkshire (they had it while I was still living at their place). So I quite know the difference.

By the way, I have to say my parents' dog, which is badly raised (and have told them lots of time), tries to bite my Rottie whenever he walks near. What does my dog do? Either he watches the Yorkie in fascination until he gets bored and walks away or he simply doesn't even notice.

I don't fully understand this part. Shouldn't you enforce the understanding that the dog is lower than the child in the "pack"? By bringing him up in the social ladder, aren't you letting him defend his position? I mean, if he perceives that the child is challenging his social position, won't he try to assert his dominance?

 

Ummm ... no. That's not correct at all. This will actually lead to more problems.

 

Triactus- That would also be a solution, but i'm not sure if dogs can be told with certainty if they're above/below another member of the pack by someone who they're not trying to dominate (alphas don't decide the place in the pack of other members besides the alpha female), but i'm not sure. I try to stick with what I know for sure here. Dogs don't become aggressive if their place in the pack is challenged, unless they're challenging for the alpha position, according to my understanding (and this is only in the wild or in conditions where the owner isn't treating the dog properly at all). They don't even mean to harm when they bite to enforce pack rules. The only instance I can think of where canines get violent due to pack dynamics is wolves around feeding time, where each member of the pack gets their share according to their rank. But even then, they give multiple warning before any action is taken.

T2Bruno- Reasons? Proof?

 

Dog you made the erroneous claim so show the proof.

The dog cannot be on the same level as the children or it will see them as competition and be more aggressive. This is pretty basic stuff.