Spell Discussions: Level 4

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Are you sure about the 3rd statement ?
Does it also work the other way around ? (Could a character with a saving throw of -4 fail his save for example? )

 

kmonster:

No.

If you have a base save of 1, you will ALWAYS save, unless your saves are modified (eg. via GM).

 

I always thought that, like with THAC0's, a natural 20 would always save you and a natural 1 would always fail. Regardless saving throws are never at or above 20, or at or below 1, so these situations would never arise in practice.

 

Do you have any proof for that your rule (with a bst 21 you can't roll a 20 to save, with bst 1 you can't roll a 1 to fail) does apply to BG2 ?
No offense meant, but it's hard to believe.
It doesn't fit to D&D rules, it doesn't fit to other IE games, it doesn't fit to how attacks are handled in BG2.
If you just need to get your saves low enough you'd just have to cast some saving throw boosters to become totally immune to mindflayer stun or send a party member with good saves and save boosting equipment killing beholders, he should be immune to their save-or-die spells.

[ August 14, 2007, 12:32: Message edited by: kmonster ]

 

Interesting:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm

 

You didn't answer my question.

 

It works this way, if you are attacked by spell or ability, which require save, you roll number on d20. When this number is higher (maybe it's equal or higher, I'm not sure) than your saving throw, you're OK.
And as was already written, 1 is fail and 20 is success no matter how good or bad your saving throws are.

 

No, I don't think this is correct. I think if saving throws are low-enough you cannot fail. Here is why:

Potions of Magic Shielding are described in their descriptions as allowing characters to 'automatically' pass all saving throws for the duration. But in fact the effect of the potion in the game is to grant a 20 point bonus to all saves. This would suggest that this bonus is equivalent to automatic success.

I've used these potions quite a lot and I've certainly never known a character to fail a save while under their effect.

 

Perhaps the designers chose not to implement the p&p rules due to technical limitations and the fact that no ingame characters have Saves lower than 1 or greater than 20.

I don't reckon we're gonna reach a consensus on the Greater Malison thing, perhaps it could be one of those optional spell, because after all it is not that great in unmodded SoA and it's efficacy relies heavily on what other spells you memorise and the individual style of play.

Time for level 5 methinks!!

 

Polymorph Self is useful for Bards. Turn into a slime and you're immune to magic, missile weapons and piercing and you can sing to your heart's content right in the midst of enemies with little to worry about. A singing slime: how cool is that?

What bugs me about Polymorph Self is that the slime form isn't immune to Mind Flayers' brain eating attack. Boy did I think I was a clever lad when I slithered my slimey bard into a room of Ilithid only to get killed in a round or two from the brain eating. Slimes have brains? Who knew.

 

Stoneskin excellent spell
Polymorph Self THE best way to fight a lich or any other spellcaster (the slime rules )
Improved Invisibility nice
Teleport Field keeps melle away from you

 

Confusion (Enc)
A save-or-else spell with a silly effect...skip this one.
Contagion (N) - scrolls of this spell are very rare. Multiple castings are cumulative, the effect is permanent(until a Cure Disease is cast), so an enemy can be killed simply by casting Contagion spells and decreasing his/her stats. I think it is a must-have spell when creating a mage of any sort, yet the spell is not good for a sorcerer. Ascension Yaga-Shura can be killed by Contagion spells.

Emotion (Enc)
a save-or-else spell. Not my favourite

Enchanted Weapon (Enc)
There are enough weapons. The spell is useless

Farsight (D)
This spell is great. It allows you to, say, guide your summons effectivelly and not be exposed to the dangers of the Wizard Eye(beholder, Umberhulk gaze and other gaze attacks)

Fireshield [Blue] (Evo/Alt)
The Protection from Cold spell grants 100% normal and magical fire resistance, despite of the spell description. So, the fireshield's cold resistance in addition to that of the prot from Cold spell simply allows your character to actually heal from cold-based attacks.
Otherwise, the spell is good, yet not my favourite, because if an enemy dies from the cold damage of the shield, there is a good chance that he will "freeze" and so items will be lost.
The Fireshield spells ignore an enemy's MR, so it is cool to cast a fireshield Blue in the midst of angry demons(while well protected by their attacks of course)

Fireshield [Red] (Evo/Alt)
Look above. This shield is more useful because there is no risk of item loss.

Greater Malison (Enc)
A very good spell. Yet, I always have my slots filled when I play a solo sorcerer and there is no place left for this spell. And, playing usually an Invoker, this spell is usually out of my reach.

Ice Storm (Evo)
The spell has its uses, but in general - in SoA there are very few uses of this spell.

Improved Invisibility (I)
A must-have for a solo sorcerer.

Minor Globe of Invulnerability (Abj)
A silly spell.

Minor Sequencer (Evo)
Every sequencer/contingency is a must-have.

Monster Summoning II (C)
-Like the first one, pretty bad.

Otiluke's Resilient Sphere (Alt)
-This spell is useless.

Polymorph Other (Alt)
A useless spell.

Polymorph Self (Alt)
-It's got a few uses, nothing spectacular though.

Remove Curse (Abj)
The Remove Curse spell has its uses, but not very much in SoA.

Secret Word (Abj)
A decent spell, yet not a pick for a solo sorcerer.

Spider Spawn (C)
The spiders are nothing special really. I'd say wait till 14 th level for Mordenkainen' s swords or 15th for Skeleton Warriors.

Spirit Armor (N)
-This is THE armor spell if you plan on getting any at all. Frees up a bracer slot.
Yet, I'd advise against picking this one with a solo sorcerer. A scroll is not very hard to obtain. Afterwards, with a Simulacrum, the spell can be cast on the protagonist whenever needed.

Stoneskin (Alt)
-You'd be a fool not to take this.

Teleport Field (Alt)
The spell is bugged. No saving throw despite the spell description. A must-have for a solo sorcerer. And otherwise - a must-have.

Wizard Eye (Alt)
-Yet, the spell has low duration, the eye can be detected and killed, or even the caster can be harmed through gaze attacks. I prefer the more useful and safer FarSight spell.

My picks as a solo-sorcerer:

StoneSkin - ImprInvisibility - Minor Sequencer - Telefield - FarSight

 

1 or 2 Stoneskin is a must, we all agree on this.

Improved Invisibility can be cast on another hero to improve his AC by 4, which is decisive in some tough battles. A must. 1 or 2.

Greater Malison is necessary for tough battles, but I find it cheesy to stack with Doom. Good combination with Slow or Chaos (total ST -8), Web (-6). Absolutely needed before you cast Finger of Death or such. Too bad it doesn't bypass MR, and it can be dispelled. At least 1.

Confusion has a longer duration than Chaos, so I would memorise 1.

I don't mind memorising Monster Summoning II and Spider Spawn, you can always need fodder.


Fireshield would be for a F/M. I don't see the use for Spirit Armour if you have Stoneskin.

In effect, I don't find Minor Sequencer that great. Remember you must target someone. When playing Aerie, it would cast Chromatic Orb BEFORE Doom!

 

Unfortunately, there are too few 4-lvl slots in order to waste some on spells like confusion or Monster Summoning II.

Fireshield is useful at some points, but not always.

Improved Invisibility is used mostly with SI in order to be untargeted by enemy spells.

All kind of Sequencer spells have 3 major bonuses.:

1. They give you 2 or 3 spells cast simultaneously
2. These 2 or 3 spells are EXTRA spells(not in your memorized spells)
3. The casting time of those spells is 0.

Aerie's Minor sequencer can hold far more useful spells than tne Doom+ChrOrb combo. I always use her Minor sequencers for Bless+Chant, because these 2 spells have an awfully long casting time

 

"Improved Invisibility is used mostly with SI in order to be untargeted by enemy spells."

Well, I don't know, maybe. But I mostly use it to improve the AC of a warrior by 4 for big physical challenges.

 

AC plays some minor role in the beginning/middle SOA. Later, almost each and every enemy can hit you through any AC. Also, the ImprInvisibility becomes useless as protection later, because many monsters have scripts that see through ImprovedInvisbility and other illusion spells, thus negating the AC and saving throw bonuses this spell grants.

And Spirit armor is a needed spell despite stoneskin, not only because of the great AC bonus and the fact that it leaves your bracer slot open for Gauntlets of Specialization(or Weapon Skill), but this spell also grants +3 vs saving throw vs spells.

 

Mandatory:

• Stoneskin: The backbone of your defense. Never leave home without it!

Useful:

• Farsight: Party players won't need this at all, but Farsight is very, very useful for solo spellcasters. Coordinate your summons and - even more important - projected image in battle, while you remain in complete safety. Don't even think about a no-reload game without it.
• Improved Invisibility: Grants three effects: It lowers your armor class (not very important), improves your saving throws (good) and it hinders enemies to cast spells on you directly (priceless). Get the G3-Fixpack or Baldurdash, otherwise the first two effects won't be provided. Only pass up this spell if you use Mislead or Mass Invisibility instead.
• Minor Sequencer: It has been said before, but I will say it again: All sequencers and contigencies are powerful.
• Spider Spawn: The spiders are really useful for a solo mage, even for a sorcerer. Sure, you will get better summons when you reach level 15, but the Spider Spawn/Web-combo will be very potent in major parts of SoA. Besides, the alternatives offered by this spell level are pretty pathetic.

Semi-useful:

• Emotion - Hopelessness: Tolerable group disabling spell, decent effect and party-friendly. Personally, I'd rather use Slow, but memorize one or two if you like save-or-else spells.
• Fireshield (Red): You get 50% fire resistance, while enemies suffer for attacking you. The damage isn't great, but bypasses magic resistance. Okay for a Fighter/Mage or Blade, but pure spellcasters do not want to have close contact to the enemy.
• Greater Malison: The overrated golden calf of spell level 4... GM claims to tip the scales in your favor when using save-or-else effects - but it's a bluff package: Depending on the exact saving throws of your enemies it can worsen or better your odds a bit (compared to casting the save-or-else spell twice). But GM has a function as substitute for such spells of higher level than 4 (Chaos, Finger of Death for example). If you like to use these a lot, think about GM, otherwise skip. Has further uses when most of the fighters in your party use weapons with save-or-else effect (Silver Sword, Celestial Fury, Ixil's Spike, Darts of Stunning and so on).
• Polymorph Self: None of the forms is a very strong fighter, but the slime form with its 100% magic resistance can be useful now and then. And keep in mind that a projected image is able to attack when polymorphed.
• Spirit Armor: Decent choice for a Fighter/Mage, but (fixed) Improved Invisibility is much better. But you can use both if you like.
• Secret Word: Cheap and easy way to get rid of most spell protections. But more often than not area damage seems more effective.
• Teleport Field: TF significantly reduces the probability that enemies will be able to hit you in melee - but is by no means a 4-round-guarantee that you'll remain unharmed. No saving throw, ignores magic resistance. Still a bit too random for my taste, but quite powerful when you have a party with a lot of archers.

Avoid like the plague:

• Confusion: Area disabling with dubious effect. The promised -2-saving throw penalty isn't even implemented as far as I know, so Emotion - Hopelessness is strictly better. Get the G3-fixpack if you want to use this spell, but I'd rather go for Chaos instead.
• Contagion: Contagion combines a rather lame effect with the unpleasentness of a touch spell. Its stat drain may have a use if you have absurd mods installed with enemies who are pretty much immune against anything else.
• Enchanted Weapon: The game offers a plethora of stronger weapons.
• Fireshield (Blue): The good news: Resistance to cold is less common, so the enemies will take more damage on average. The bad news: Can destroy loot and the provided cold resistance is pretty worthless. Stick to the red one if you like the fireshields.
• Ice Storm: Laughable damage, short duration.
• Minor Cube of Invulnerability: Useful in BG1 and the very beginning of SoA, but later enemy mages laugh about this.
• Monster Summoning II: Spider Spawn is much better.
• Otiluke's Resilient Sphere: Save-or-else spell without penalty or really devastating effect. Interesting for some strange stunts, but nothing to write home about.
• Polymorph Other: More save-or-else madness... Go for Emotion - Hopelessness instead if you really like to take chances.
• Remove Curse: How often do you get cursed? Not at all? I thought so.
• Wizard Eye: Let's compare WE to Farsight. The WE is mobile, but can be killed and dispelled. Furthermore it has a shorter duration and makes the caster vulnerable to gaze attacks. Conclusion: Farsight is always reliable, Wizard Eye isn't.

Solo Sorcerer picks: Stoneskin - Spider Spawn - Minor Sequencer - Farsight - Polymorph Self (If you choose Mislead and/or Mass Invisibility later, that is. If you don't, pick Improved Invisibility after Spider Spawn and forget about Polymorph Self.)

Party Sorcerer picks: Stoneskin - Improved Invisibility - Minor Sequencer - Teleport Field - Greater Malison