Stalker questions, discussion etc.

Remove all ads!

You know, the difference in Thac0 between a F/M/T and a Stalker is never more than 7 points (between 3.6 and 4 million, the Ranger has a Thac0 of 20 and the F/M/T has a Thac0 of 13) and usually much smaller than that, as well. In my humble opinion, there is really no reason to play a F/T when, between the familiar's bonus hitpoints and judicious use of Tenser's transformation, most of the disadvantages present with the F/T are completely negated. As an added bonus, the F/M/T gets much better Mage spells than the stalker.

 

Calling a Thac0 difference of 5 a "mere" difference doesn't make much sense. It's exactly the same as saying there is no effective difference between wearing leather armor and wearing plate mail, because the armor rating differs by a mere 5 levels.

 

I don't know if I agree with your last post Drew.

The reason is that a FT and a FMT have a very different feel to them. With ToB installed, the FT still gets a familiar also.

I really like the ability to play one of the short races. IMHO, they're the best options in the BG series. They all get great saving throw bonuses, which will save your bacon a lot!

I'm not going to calculate it out, but a Dwarf F/T played from BG1 will naturally regenerate, have sooo many HP (especially after gaining a familiar) and will have a high enough DEX that pointy ears won't make a difference.

 

No, but stoneskinned pointy ears will make a difference .

 

A pointy ears played from BG1 still gets a bit of an advantage. During BG2 and ToB it actually can make it over that 3point gap in Dex(18-20) and reach the next higher AC adjustment, +2 more in missile attack adj, and 10-15% dex bonus to most thieving skills over the dwarf which while at very high level might not matter much can be a big help in BG1 and a fair portion of BG2.

The Dwarf F/T will never be able to make it over the gap because the things in hell/pocket realm in BG2 and the deck of many things reward with an if/then programming that checks for fighter first as I recall so the F/T will gain Strength from them instead of Dexterity. As I recall. Only Lum's Machine gives a specific Dex bonus in BG2/ToB and if that's the only one it's not really a very worthwhile boost for the dwarf.

The dwarf however would have regeneration early on such as in BG where regeneration is particularly hard to get and would have slightly higher HP and 2 higher Constitution. the regeneration can be overcome by items in BG2/ToB. It will keep better saves to poison and magic and it's racial bonus to thieving skills does overcome the elves higher dex advantage to lockpicking and detecting traps which some do see as the only real thieving skills that matter.


it's a give and take. specially at the lower more critical levels between the two races.

However when it comes to thieves. Particularly over the course of both games and their expansions.

The Halflings are still king. At low levels they have the highest thieving skill bonuses of any thief combination when they can have a dex as high as any elf. Their con is 1 lower than the Dwarf so they don't regenerate but they can have as many HP as the Dwarf(19 and 20 Con have the same HP modifier). Lum's machine can give them slight natural regeneration over the course of both games but the dwarves will end up with a very small advantage in hp in the end. They get the saving throw bonuses to poison and magic that are good. There are multiple things that boost up their one drawback stat. Strength for them max's out at 23 instead of 24 if your all about the bonuses but there are items that you can't tell the difference from other F/T.

So a short race does win out but it is not the Dwarf.


The F/T and the Stalker both have different styles and feels to me though. Not just between the F/M/T and the two. The Stalker can ready itself with certain protections even if they aren't as good as a Druid/Cleric but they can still have a nice affect in tougher fights or slow down the damage that a particularly hard hitter will do to the Stalker.

[ May 06, 2007, 17:01: Message edited by: starwalker ]

 

thethruth, there are many, many scrolls of stoneskin around in the game. I've had dwarf F/T's just horder the suckers.

starwalker, I agree that halflings are better F/T's, but I just personally prefer dwarves.

The 19 STR as opposed to 18 STR in BG1 makes a big difference though, and in SoA you aren't tied down by needing a STR boosting item (but for me, the point is moot, since I end up dual-weilding Crom Faeyr).

 

Except that when the difference is 5 points, the F/T still has a Thac0 of 6, which is more than enough to hit pretty much anything, vs the Stalker's Thac0 of 1....and then the difference shrinks until it goes away.

Here's how it works:
300K exp: The Stalker's Thac0 is 12. The F/T has a Thac0 of 13
600K: Stalker=11 , F/T=12
1 Million: Stalker=10, F/T=11
1.5 Mil: Stalker=8, F/T=10
2 Mil: Stalker=7, F/T=9
2.5 Mil: Stalker=6, F/T=8
3 Mil: Stalker=3, F/T=7
3.5 Mil: Stalker=2, F/T=6
4 Mil: Stalker=0, F/T=5
4.5 Mil: Stalker=0, F/T=4
5 Mil: Stalker=0, F/T=3
5.5 Mil: Stalker=0, F/T= 2
6 Mil: Stalker=0, F/T=1
6.5 Mil: Stalker=0, F/T=0
As you can see, when you have a difference of 5 is rather important. Most of the Game, the difference is only 2 points.

(My initial analysis failed to take advancement past level 20 into account, so it was initially off by .5 million XP)

@Klorox: If it weren't for the fact that the F/T has no way (short of using a few of the game's limited scrolls) of protecting himself against Imprisonment, can't wade into Melee without getting hurt (the FMT can cast PFMW), and can't drop a Wizard's combat protections when he needs to, I'd probably agree with you. The F/M/T can do any of those things multiple times per day for free and loses almost nothing in exchange for it.

[ May 06, 2007, 21:40: Message edited by: Drew ]

 

The difference is only 2 points if you have a lot of mod's which gives you a lot more experience to earn.

If you don't have a lot of mods the difference is actually about 4 for a good portion of the game. That would be towards the end of BG2 and into ToB in fact by your numbers since 5mil and above is unlikely to be reached. The experience is such that 4.5mil might be stretching it a bit at the end of ToB with no real mods to speak of.