Ten worst people on Earth

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Headbanger, whatever the difference was (yes, they don't have same hair color, bush doesn't grow beard, etc), the list is about worse and there is no reason why wouldn't two different persons be at the same spot on the list.

The list is not "ten stupid people" nor "ten murderers" nor "TEN NUKE OWNERS".

 

Hmmm, I think you missed the point Glixius and this returns to the original intent of the thread I believe. It is impossible to make a list of 10 worst people in my opinion.

""During the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that conditions called war; and such a war, as if of every man, against every man.

"To this war of every man against every man, this also in consequent; that nothing can be unjust. The notions of right and wrong, justice and injustice have there no place. Where there is no common power, there is no law, where no law, no injustice. Force, and fraud, are in war the cardinal virtues.

"No arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death: and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short."
Thomas Hobbes

You were angry in your original post Glixius about the actions of the US in the past and I take it saying that the US should be considered for the top 10 list. My point was that man is brutal and selfish and it was ironic to complain about the US treatment of the Natives and to exhibit such pride in your region when the treatment of the Natives in Canada was equally brutal and history shows us the treatment of the Natives from Mexico South was far more brutal than the treatment north; because of the wider Spanish influence perhaps and the fact that Spanish goals differed from the French and English at the time?

Here's a few more quotes making my point about this list of top 10:

"Cruelty has a Human Heart, And jealousy a Human Face; Terror the Human Form Divine, And secrecy the Human Dress. The Human Dress is forged Iron, The Human Form a Fiery Forge, The Human Face a Furnace seal d, The Human Heart its hungry gorge. "
William Blake

"Of mankind we may say in general they are fickle, hypocritical, and greedy of gain. "
Niccolo Machiavelli

"I have found little that is "good" about human beings on the whole. In my experience most of them are trash, no matter whether they publicly subscribe to this or that ethical doctrine or to none at all. That is something that you cannot say aloud, or perhaps even think."
Freud

In Plato's "Republic" there is a story of a man who finds a ring which allows him to become invisible and thus may accomplish whatever he desires without fear of retribution. The man proceeds to sleep with the wives of other men, steal etc.

So, I hope my point is now more clearly conveyed. I actually don't have quite as dim a view on human nature as some of those quoted above have. My view lies somewhere between that of Hobbes and Locke; many men if not all would rape and pillage if given the opportunity and so in making a list of the 10 worst people you have to ask is it right to consider someone worse for doing that which many would do if given the opportunity? Afterall, it isn't a list of the 10 worst deeds or the people who have had the means, opportunity, and will to do the worst things but rather it is a list of the 10 worst people. Unknowable and probably millions are tied for #1 on the list.





[This message has been edited by Laches (edited November 16, 2001).]

 

Glixius, did you just say that you think the terrorists hitting the Pentagon was a good thing? Why don't you go to Washington DC and say that, asshole? It's not as though there were innocent people in the Pentagon, is it?

As for the South American intervention stuff...yeah, FORMER US administrations did some pretty shitty things to you people. But guess what, we don't anymore. You don't hold modern Germans responsible for the Holocaust, so why the fuck do you hold modern Americans responsible for all that other shit?

America doesn't have a culture? Right. So you've never heard of Hollywood? It may be new, but it is still a culture. We're a composite culture.

Your country in South America, whatever it is, has also not been around for more than 200 or so years. What the hell kind of a stupid thing to say about a nation is that anyway? Fine, so your Indian ancestors had a nation long before the Spanish started killing them. So what? That nation no longer exists. My Russian/Polish/German ancestors all had nations and cultures of their own,too.

 

AMaster, I'm afraid I may have fanned the flames and be at blame for a harsh post from you because I woke a sleeping giant a while and so I'm going to try to clarify what I meant and urge a modification of the way you conveyed what you meant to say.

What does "worst" mean? I take it to mean wrongdoers as opposed to righteous or evil not good. What then is wrong or evil? I think many have considered the actions of individuals and I was asking to what extent we should consider motive. If someone truly believe their actions to be good are they evil?

Consider the following: you're Jesus Christ. You are running for President of the U.S. One of your desires is what we'll call the Utilitarian Want (UW) desire to avoid massive useless harm. You become elected President (I suppose we should imagine Jesus is also very rich.) Now, across the ocean the USSR is ruled by Darth Vader who uses the force to read peoples minds and desires to conqueor the world and make everyone slaves. Now, Darth reads Jesus' mind and knows that he is the sort of person with the UW and so, Darth can launch nuclear weapons at the US because Jesus won't retaliate because that would only cause massive useless harm (the US is dead anyways) and then Darth can take over the world unopposed. Jesus is smart though. He knows Darth can read minds and so, in order to prevent half the world from being destroyed and the other half from being enslaved Jesus has to become the sort of person who is willing to cause massive useless harm, he has to become a cold hearted s.o.b. willing to destroy the world. Paradoxical huh? However, given the circumstances, would it be right to call Jesus evil for being so coldhearted when his motivation for becoming so was so noble? Indeed, by being so coldhearted he is saving the world, wouldn't that be good?

My point is that maybe we need to consider whether motive is a criteria in deciding who is evil and if so I think we might find that those who appeared dissimilar are actually not that unalike. So we come to my point about the Native Americans and their treatment.

The most brutal actions ever taken against Native Americans at one time was perpetrated by Native Americans. The Inca, under the rule of Huayna Capac brutally conquered Quito, which is now Ecuador. That brutality though paled in comparison to the bloodshed that followed when Huayana died and civil war erupted between his sons Athahuala and Huascar as they struggled for power. The Spanish and Inca were brothers in blood because they were both motivated by the lust for power. As are many others. I just think it is hypocrisy to decry the actions of the English/French/Americans with regards to the Natives while ignoring the actions of the Spanish and the Natives themselves and failing to recognize the common human bond, which is the desire to dominate.

As an aside, regarding American culture. American culture is Friday night high school football in a small town in Texas, it's an elderly Russian immigrant making her way to the bleachers in Wrigley field to watch her beloved Cubs play baseball. It's small Amish communities in Pennsylvania, small Baptist churches in Alabama, synagogues in New York, and Haida Native spirit gatherings on the Northwest coast. It's the street smarts toughness of New York, the glitz of L.A. It is the cold frontier mentality of Naknek, Alaska and the friendly warmth of Molokai Hawaii. American culture is diverse and some may denigrate that diversity as a lack of culture, failing to understand the common bonds that tie, but I for one think that diversity is America's strength.

Have I wandered afield? I'm still new here but I was motivated by thoughts I had while considering the "10 worst people" but if I'm too far astray or just too damned mouthy let me know and I'll know to modify future posting. I'll shut up now.