The Ashes Thread

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Nice to see you're not sour in defeat .

1 - LBW decisions? Umpires decisions go both ways. What about Pietersens dismissal for starters? No way out. Bodyline tactics? What are you talking about? There's been some tremendous bowling from Harmy, Freddy et al. I wouldn't come with that one whilst Brett 'bouncer-boy' Lee is in your 11 mate.

2 - What was wrong with Geraint Jones' wicket keeping this test? I don't recall him dropping a single catch in the 2nd test. Plus, that was a clever little catch to get Kaspro out at the death. Maybe critics will get off his back a bit now. Berating him for a few missed catches, when he's been really good for us over the last 2 years is ridiculous and does nothing for his confidence.

3 - I don't get what you mean with that last bit? I have already said that McGrath's absence was a big factor in the victory. I should be sad he is out? What is he doing playing rugby just before a test match, anyway?

The Aussies are a better cricket side than we are, simple; and we need all the advantages we can get.

Australia lost because you allowed us to smack a 400 run 1st innings, then let us get a 50+ 9th wicket partnership. Not any bad tactics or any dodgy umpiring. Also, is it too hard to praise your tail-enders for that wonderful stand? It was more good batting (and, dare I say, a slight bit of luck) than any bad bowling on Englands part.

Anyway, looking forward to the next test. The winner of this one will all depend on how they have prepared the pitch at OT. If, as usual, it's a spinners wicket, I expect the Warne to nick it for the Aussies. If it's not, then momentum will stick with England.

 

Where would have the England team been without Freddy. He was the highest scorer as well as the highest wicket taker for the poms.

In comparision everyone from the aussie side played equally dreadfully (in the batting department). Yet lost by just two runs.

You had better get some BA, coz you are way too high. The aussies are pissed and wont be going down again. McGrath is going to play for atleast two tests. The ashes are going south.

 

Too high?

I don't recall myself saying we will walk the Ashes now. I'll leave that to the tabloids. I am just basking in an England victory whilst the series is stil alive that is long, long overdue.

I think the Aussies will still win the Ashes, because of a fat little bloke called Shane Warne (Harbs; how dare you talk about Big Kevs hair cut when Warney is walking around with that ridiculous mop?). If Magraa comes back to partner Warney, we've had it. England aren't looking a bad side right now though (and haven't for nearly 2 years...), so you can't blame a little optimism. We've not come even close to winnings the Ashes in sooo many years...

I don't think I've ever come out boasting that we will walk the Ashes though .

I don't see how EVERY Aussie batsmen didn't perform though...
Also, saying such a thing is a disservice to our bowlers. Not many of their batsmen gave their wickets away, they were simply outfoxed by good bowling.

England teams never get enough internationak respect...

We'd thrash India, put it that way. We might even let Kabir Ali, Sajid Mahmood and Vikram Solanki lead the line .

 

At least you're not playing Zimbabwe. What a joke. We just beat them inside TWO days. Two days!! The first time in 50 years that a team has been dismissed twice in one day. I'd like to say it was our superior bowling, but I fear it is more that Zimbabwe were dreadful. Bangladesh should get over there now to rack up a few test wins of their own.

Back to the Ashes, this is the best England bowling lineup I have ever seen. Usually there are one or two weak links in the attack (e.g. for every Darren Gough, there was an Ian Austin. For every Bob Willis, there was a Norman Cowans) but this attack is relentless. Given that ball has dominated bat in this series so far, I think the next test will belong to the team who can find a batsman who is determined to really defy the bowlers and score a big 100 (not just whack a few sixes). The only guys I can see who have the patience (and form) to do that might be Langer, Ponting, or Trescothick. Glichrist, Flintoff, and Pietersen will chip in with some quick runs but the next test winner will be built around a big long innings.

EDIT: Brett Lee is in doubt for the 3rd test. That swings things more in England's favour, especially if uncapped Shaun Tait is exposed to Flintoff's flashing blade. Unless, of course, Tait is another of these amazing talents that Australia seem to always manage to dig up out of nowhere who turn out to be awesome. But you'd have to say that the unthinkable (England taking the LEAD in this series) is looking more and more likely.

[ August 09, 2005, 02:43: Message edited by: Harbourboy ]

 

Barmy, not sure you've seen this, but certain you'd like it.

http://www.channel4.com/sport/microsites/B/bringiton/bringiton.html

Mate, I was trying to be as gracious as possible in defeat. It's just a lot harder when you lose to England, not so much because of the players, but the press and the commentators. We lost because Ponting made a bad call, plus we didn't get the job done with the bat - when Brett Lee top-scores for Australia, something's seriously wrong. Even then, as you put it, you guys nearly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory against a side that's out of form, because England let their guard down when we needed 100 runs from the last 2 wickets.

BA, England beat us, fair and square. I won't pretend it doesn't rankle.

Of course, Botham is championing the cause now, so we can expect all sorts of conspiracy theories about the wicket for the next test, regardless of the result. The prat's showing the same anti-competitive streak I've come to expect in rugby, that's just not cricket!

HB, I don't think losing Brett Lee is necessarily a bad thing, as long as he can still bat... Tait can't be as expensive as Lee.

 

Non Sequitur, you have summed up brilliantly why the English rugby team is my most disliked sports team in the world - more because of the English press than the players themselves.

I have to say that England is a very difficult team to support. Although I am neutral in this series, I have to say I'd slightly prefer Australia to win (and that's a big call for a Kiwi) rather than England, and that is for the reasons you have outlined.

That said, a close series is a good series as far as I am concerned.

 

Wow, HB... that IS big. My former housemate went through the same thing at the last Rugby World Cup - I think he was secretly hoping for a nuclear attack on the stadium. He ended up - grudgingly - supporting Australia, more because he'd rather NZ got put out by the winners. And don't think he didn't take every chance to call Australia a bunch of chokers when we lost, either.

I said the same thing when we won the one-day series; that I wouldn't really have cared as much had the English press not been so smarmy. There's nothing better than shutting someone up after they run their mouth about being better than you, IMO. I'm just hoping Australia got the kick in the arse it needed to do so.

 

Well, I don't see why the press will cause you to dislike a team... ? What do they do anyway, that's so bad? I'm sure the Australian press is just as bad. The press are press, whatever the country.
Surely you mean just the tabloids with this, anyway?

I really don't see what is hard to like about the English cricket side! They're a bunch of decent guys. Did you see Flintoff go straight over to Lee to console him after England won? There are no pricks in our team like Brett 'beamer-happy' Lee or that adulterous idiot Shane Warne.

The Australian team is EXTREMELY arrogant (5-0 whitewash I ask you!!!) - surely that makes them infinitely more dislikeable than England, who have a section of bad press (which in no way reflect on the side itself).

Are you talking bout the recent one-day series before the test series? I hate to piss on your parade, but that was a draw mate. Also, I don't recall any press saying that we are better than Australia during the ODI series... ?

Oh, and things like this:

... and...

Is far more insulting and degrading than any press stories .

The problem with the Australian cricket side is that they have been top-dog for far too long. The Australian side has to be the most arrogant team with the biggest superiority complex in world sport. THAT is why England love to beat them at 'their' sport.

 

All this rivalry just makes the series more interesting and exciting!

But to answer your questions, Barmy, I know it is probably a little difficult to explain but the English press and fans are just more annoying than any other countries. It's like the way that EVERY time England wins a cricket game in the leadup to the Ashes, they all starting raving about how the Ashes are coming home (even though until this series there was no justification for that statement). It's like how English rugby writers are forever moaning about Southern hemisphere rugby is too flashy and not real rugby. It's like how your soccer commentators always think England has a great chance to win the World Cup, but hardly ever acknowledge that there are usually about 12 teams with the same or better chance. It's the number of stories I've read about Flintoff being the next Botham. It's Clive Woodward. It's Will Carling. It's Michael Vaughan's girly body suit. It's Kevin Pietersen's hair.

Don't get me wrong. Australia annoys me as well. I loved seeing Shane Warne getting smashed by the Sri Lankans in the 1996 cricket World Cup final. Wallaby lock Justin Harrison is a complete munter. Australian cricket commentator Bill Lawry can't ever admit a weakness in any of the Australian players.

I also have to say that I usually do back England in the Ashes because it is in my nature to back anyone who is playing against Australia. And it would be great to see someone else take the top spot in the cricket rankings. But something in me wants to see this great Australian team win one more series before they all head off to the old folks' home. If England don't win this series, they should be favourites to win the next one as all their current players will still be there and should be even better, but Australia will have a whole new inexperienced team.

 

Have you also noticed how the press absolutely destroyed the England side after the loss at Lords?
Press are press. They go for an easy story line to sell papers. We won = We'll win the Ashes. We lose = We're 'Vaughan Again Losers'. It's just the way of the press. What should they run stories on?

You can't dislike a team because of the actions of the press. The team can't control that. It's a tad unfair.

As for the next football World Cup. It's defo coming home .

 

@ Harbourboy

*All* the Wallabies are complete munters. Giteau better than Carter? Hahahahaha what a load of crap. Witness Jerry Collins destroy their entire pack by himself on saturday and watch the body count rise.

 

Barmy Army, it's not just the press. Remember that I lived in England for three years. The people I worked with were all just as bad (maybe because they spent so much time reading their own press). They even thought Jason Robinson was the world's greatest back!

 

You mean Jason Robinson isn't the worlds greatest back?

Well anyway, fair play. Your allegiances are just that. Yours.

Obviously, I'll support England to the death in most sports.

Off-topic, but - how is it that you came to live in England for 3 years and then returned? Was it study? Visiting family or just having a break in another country?

 

Off-topic, but have you not noticed how many New Zealanders, Australians, and South Africans are living in England? There are loads of us there because its almost become a rite of passage for those of us who live on the other side of the world to go and spend a few years living in England and using that as a base for visiting other parts of Europe etc. I guess because England is English speaking and we can find work there to support our travels.

But it also gives us a chance to get to know how the English sporting mind works and to get into sports like soccer which we might not normally watch. It is also great to be living there when your own sports team travels there, like when I watched NZ play England at Lords (and win) or when I saw the All Blacks play Wales at Cardiff (and win), but not when I saw the All Blacks play France at Twickenham (and lose).

So all that has helped form my opinion of English sports teams, fans, and media and impacts my view on the Ashes.

(woohoo, look how I managed to get this all back on topic!)

 

Three words for ya... "Well played, Canada!"

Sure I can! But I don't deny it's unfair.

At the risk of coming off as a typical arrogant Aussie, BA, the reason why they've been so arrogant is because until very recently, that arrogance has been something they've backed up just about every single time.

That 5-0 comment was pretty stupid, though.

There's nothing insulting about saying it hurts losing to England. I just flat-out don't like Australia losing to England, and I'd much rather Bangladesh or Zimbabwe beat us than England simply because I can't stand the nob behaviour of many Brits when they think they're on top.

Well, Warne may be a wanker in real life, but he's still a better spinner than any Englishman. If he was English, you'd be defending him with more passion than you allege HB has for Gilchrist.

As for Beamer Boy, well, I guess you think it's okay when "Grievous Bodily" Harmison or Flintoff does the same thing, hm? I'm actually HAPPY that Lee might be out of the next Test; I don't rate him anywhere nearly as high as most seem to.

And as for my earlier comments about Ian Botham, well, have a squiz at this and tell me I'm not justified in hating the guy for the right reasons:

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,16197270%255E11088,00.html

You reckon he's bad in international cricket? Hell, you should hear what he's like commentating in a match involving Victoria! The Twelfth Man piss-takes weren't much of an exaggeration, HB.

 

The other thing that this Ashes series has highlighted for me is that some of the Australian batsmen are not as great as their statistics would have you believe. Classic example is Matthew Hayden who I would describe as a ‘flat track bully’. That is, he is fantastic at capitalising on below par bowling or on flat batting strips but he is useless when the going gets tough. In this sense, I put him in the same basket as Graeme Hick who scored triple hundreds against county bowlers but was easily found out by the top test bowlers. Compare this to guys like Brian Lara, Graeme Gooch, or Allan Border who often scored their best innings in tough circumstances when their team was in trouble. I think that Damien Martyn is probably just as bad, as he has a very suspect technique outside off stump.

It is amazing that Australian selectors never seem to consider dropping any of their batsmen, especially given that there are always half a dozen world class batsmen waiting in the wings who would waltz into other test sides. A quick look at the county batting averages in any given year usually shows Australians dominating the stats, including guys who have never seen the inside of a baggy green cap.

In fact, I have read that there have only been 11 new test caps for Australia since Adam Gilchrist in 1999. That is absolutely staggering, given that England probably had that many new caps in their last injury ravaged Ashes tour a couple of years ago, and given how good the Australian second XI is.

There really needs to be more competition for spots in that Australian team. The guys who are there might be getting complacent that they’re never going to get dropped.

 

Anybody watching the Womens cricket at Hove?

Aus 355 all out, England 206 for 3.

Highest score so far by the Aussies no. 10 - 81 not out.

 

Hmm, I see that Brett Lee is fit to play but that Glenn McGrath has not been ruled out of contention. Surely he can't be fit that quickly.

Plenty of disagreement over what the pitch is going to be like. I have heard:
a) that it is a traditional turner
b) that it is hard and fast and will suit the seamers
c) that it might be damp on the first day meaning that the game will be decided by the toss.

No idea who is right but I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

England won the toss, & decided to bat.

McGrath is fit again, amazingly.

Oh dear, I've posted, time for an English wicket to fall.

 

Dear, dear I'm a bit dissappointed with Big Kev. Giving his wicket away like that, when all we needed in that situation was a bit of consolidation...

Great stuff from Vaughan. He was a bit lucky to still be in to be honest, but made the Aussies pay in the best way possible for crap fielding. What an innings from Bell as well. They don't half go after him! Every single run was worked extremely hard for. Very patient and tidy innings, showing good mental strength. Hopefully he'll carry this onto a big score, perhaps playing second fiddle to Freddy tomorrow and slowly totting his scorecard up. Then he could go on to make a decent score in the 2nd innings and have this match Englands. I tell you, Harbs, the lad is young, talented and learns very quickly. He's good now and will be magnificent before long .

Lee seemed to be getting a lot of joy today. That bodes well for our pace boys. Harmison will get dangerous pace and bounce off this wicket, so expect a few hits when Australia come in. Oh, and Non-whatyername, there's nothing wrong with bouncers and aggressive bowling into the body. Nothing at all. I was just saying you were hypocritical for having a dig at the England pacers when Lee is the same, if not more so.

A good day for England overall, but Kev has handed Aus a big lifeline. At 332-3 that was massive and we were cruising. 341-5 is still big, but if we don't get decentg innings from Freddy and Jones, we might be looking at just 400 when 500+ was definitely on the cards for me.

Ah well, we'll just wait and see tomorrow.