The Christmas Day Bomber and fallout

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California is IMO a prime example where direct democracy has from what I read created a corset of legislation that currently renders the state nearly dysfunctional.

I gather, never mind how great the idea of direct democracy sounds like on paper, it's easily exploited (In particular in the US, the land of Edward Bernays. The right put big money and very professional PR behind Prop 8 for example - just to make a political point, draw a line in the sand, have a fight and definitely not to solve an actual real life problem), of for another example, see the Swiss banning minarets. Glorious idea, that.

 

Islam is in an identity crisis. Only the islamic people can stop islamic terrorism. We, the west, can only hold the pieces together from falling apart into a world war until they, the muslims, come with the glue.

They have to understand that it cannot go on like this. Some day a respons that will make Iraq look like a picnic is going to happen. Not only oil is a motivation. The west also would like to keep the fingers on the red buttons theirselves or by people they control.

 

That's exactly right. Some Americans should understand that this is really a war between Muslims - partly political and partly religious. They are not "out to get us" because they are "jealous" of us, but, because through economic and political circumstances, we are somehow in the middle of it.

 

I would say that we are in the middle of it as a result of our own policies -- we wouldn't be involved in their affairs if they didn't have something we desperately wanted -- oil.

To illustrate this, look at the Hutus and Tutsis. They hate each other just as much as some Shia's hate Sunnis, or Muslims hate Jews, but we don't really get involved supporting one side or the other -- or even know as much about their conflict -- because we are not interested in the natural resource in their territory. So we don't have one side or the other pissed of at us for being in the area because we don't have as much of a presence there as we do in the oil producing Middle East regions.

This is not to excuse their terrorist actions against us or to excuse our "less than ethical" actions against them. But it does explain why some of them would really like nothing better than to make Western Interests butt the <expletive> out.

 

Oh, I completely agree, LKD. But we should also remain a close ally of Israel, even if it makes us unpopular with some states in the region.

 

I'm sorry Chandos -- are you being sarcastic? I cannot recall your previous statements on Israel.

I am gonna take it that you aren't being sarcastic and agree with your statement -- Israel is surrounded by enemies and has a right to exist. We in the West who helped in the creation of the nation (ha! I'm a poet!) should support its existence. But we should also hold them accountable when they do bad things, just as we do with any other country. I don't think that Israel should be given a free pass on things that we condemn other country's for.

Step one is, of course, ending our Western dependence on foreign oil. Easier said than done.

 

I was not being sarcastic, LKD. I am a supporter of Israel for various reasons, including that they are a democracy in a hotbed of nations of petty despots and autocratic states (it's little wonder that people turn to religion instead of politics in such places). Also, we can accomplish more as friends of Israel, rather than opponents. They are reasonable and rational people. And I also realize that the Palestinians are tragic pawns in a political game of cat and mouse played by most all the parties in the region.

 

I agree with Chandos on Israel (surprising statement) and that alone will keep us involved in the region to some extent, which means we'll keep being a target. I would like to see an end to foreign oil (and most all oil use, for that matter) and I don't think that's too unrealistic these days, but just Israel is going to keep us stocked with enemies in the region.