The Courtier's Reply

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As ever, Sis, you've saved me much typing!

@Atheists in general: I find it quite the cop-out to hear, "I couldn't possibly worship the God of the {choose your book}." If that's the sole reason you have for your disbelief, I can't help but feel that you didn't want to believe and latched on to the most convenient excuse that came along. A well-reasoned position is another story, of course, but I don't hear THOSE very often.

 

The problem with Dawkins is that he goes from a legitimate enterprise at which he is extremely skilled, namely debunking ID nonsense and the watchmaker argument, and then tries to move from that to a much stronger statement about various other philosophical issues.

And, like most philosophy done by scientists, it is generally of poor quality. That's not to say that there aren't sound arguments against belief in God, just that Dawkins doesn't really articulate anything new or interesting, and some of it is downright bad.

 

@Montresor: Newsflash - I don't believe in the God that's described in the Torah either, but that doesn't stop me from being Jewish. If you think that's impossible, try reading Spinoza.

 

@Montresor, the weakness I find in your argument is that I gather that you believe that 5,700 old book either has to be completely correct or completely wrong. What Rally and I are saying is that it is the gathering of myths, teachings and philosophies of the ages. It was written by humans for humans. In fact where in the Bible does it say "This is the Word of God, dictated by God to some man"? The only thing I know of that claims to be a dictation by YVHV is the slate of commandments given to Moses which he broke in his anger at the peoples worshiping of a golden calf. He had to go back and get another set. What was on that first set we have no idea.

The Greeks wrote reams of philosophy and scientific works. Should we toss out all their writings because some of it is not valid? Whether God gave Mankind a brain or it just evolved we have brains and it is silly to waste them. Why bother to debate anything if we are tied to the past and are not allowed to build on the knowledge of the past?

At the time there were good reasons for the rules and regulations laid down in the old testament but times have changed. How much I am sometimes uncertain.

Religious belief is an intensely personal thing which is why it generates so much heat and controversy. Whether one is defending it or rejecting it we are touching on the innermost self.

If I make the statement "I believe in God" that does not mean I believe in some archaic idea of a tribal deity that is going to lambaste my enemies. Actually it doesn't really tell you what I believe but people will jump to a conclusion based on their beliefs and experiences which are probably quite different from mine.

I am trying to think of an example to explain better what I mean and the only one I can think of is poltical. I was raised in a house that was Democratic to the hilt. Upon reaching voting age I worked tabulating votes which meant that Democrats and Republicans worked together. When I casually mention that the Republicans I worked with were nice people my mother got very upset, extremely so. She was reacting to the word Republican not to the humans themselves. She was wrong in this instance but does that mean I should reject everything she said because she wasn't always right? I don't think so but neither should I simply accept something because she was my mother. It is up to me to use my brain and my experiences and sometimes I am going to be wrong.

[ July 10, 2007, 14:45: Message edited by: Nakia ]

 

That reminds me of a quote frm Galileo:

"I do not feel inclined to believe that the same God that gifted us with reason, wit, and intellect intended us to forego their use."