The Hardest Dragon

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Just reread what I wrote - "Firkraag's breath seems to be more level." Huh? Anyway I'm glad you understood that, I certainly dont!

Nope! Only someone wanting to do a speedrun of the game might let him live, but then a speed runner might not even bother doing a stronghold quest. I think a newbie would probably assume that killing the dragon was not optional anyway, and the only way they could sneak past it would be with the wardstone. But I think as soon as they saw it, they would probably assume it had to die.

I'd be interested to see how tough Dragons will be by the time I get to late SOA/TOB. By then I should have timestop, which I think is pretty much the end of Dragons. Not much they can do against it. And Abi Dhalzim's Horrid Wilting is very difficult to resist.

 

I'm pretty sure I've come back later to kill the Shadow Dragon after killing the Shade Lord and completing the quest. It was in a game where I wanted Mazzy as soon as possible, and while I felt comfortable doing the dungeon, I was in no way prepared for the dragon. I think it's completely possible to come back later and take him out.

 

Its in the latest readme, and I'm definitely using version 20, so it hasnt been removed. Perhaps it is conditional on installing another component? Or a certain type of install?

I've got smarter dragons and standardize dragon immunities but not increase dragon's staying power. They are definitely tough enough!

 

I agree. I always kill the Shade Lord 1st, then Firkkraag and then the Shadow Dragon afterwards....

 

Draconis is the only dragon that drives me insane. The shadow dragon sometimes is annoying (stupid level drain) but since I can honestly set traps and the like it usually is not a big issue.

 

I've only played Baldur's Gate II and ToB fully once, but I never had any problems with dragons in Shadows of Amn, mainly because I waited until Chapter 6 to tackle Firkraag and the Shadow Dragon. But when I got to Throne of Bhaal and had to face Draconis it was another story. I had to reload at least 10 times. My party consisted of my Half-Orc Fighter/Thief, Korgan, Keldorn, Anomen, Jaheira, and Edwin. I mainly relied on Keldorn to use True Sight but since Draconis was very fond of scattering my party all over the place with his wing buffet, I had to keep Keldorn busy just trying to search for Draconis. Draconis also casts a lot of protections on himself. Edwin tried to use those wands that cast Breach and Spellstrike at the same time but it didn't seem to work at all. I just decided to have Edwin use Time Stop and cast the spells himself and that did the trick. I will say that not even Demogorgon was the cause of so many reloads.

 

This is a little O/T, but how do you do an archer/mage? Even with Shadowkeeper, I can only figure out how to do an Archer/Cleric.

I'd have liked to do a Bard(5)/Shapechanger(X) dual class (or multi) for Oz when I was playing a Buffy the Vampire Slayer themed party.

 

My feeling is either he just set the kit in Shadow Keeper (which I don't think actually does anything if you are not a ranger) or the poster is something else but uses bows and the like.

 

Tactics mod includes a Generic Archer kit. Its the same as the Ranger Archer, but its a Fighter Archer, which means far more dual class options.

 

Well that answers that question. Perhaps they should make one for thieves since currently the best archers are swashbucklers (which cannot specialize in a ranged only weapon though that is not a big deal).

 

As Proteus says, it's impossible without mods, even if you have Shadow Keeper. The rule to remember is all dual classes must be valid multi-class combinations. That's why you can be an archer/cleric - and I seem to remember it doesn't let you get grand mastery in slings which kind of defeats the point - as a ranger/cleric is a multi-class option. However, there's no ranger mage combo.

Can you explain? Better than an archer? Better than a fighter (like Mazzy)?

 

Also quite confused on that one! I thought swashies were renowned close combatants.

 

I played a cavalier through most of my early playthrough's so dragons where never hard for me. For those that haven't played a cavalier, it's like having a hero that can both tank the dragon and hurt the dragon despite not being high level.

Firkraag was basically a finger of death contingency for me. When I got him to improved difficulty and abstained from death spells it was still just a matter of buffing and letting my cavalier tank him.

Draconis dies fast to chain lightning spam.

The shadow dragon was a so so fight.

Otherwise I don't recall many of them, I'll have to play through the game again. Abazigal isn't hard though. Yet again my cavalier easily tanked and wrecked him while my party healed buffed and did minor damage.

In fact, I'd say improved mind flayers are harder than most dragons.

 

I guess it could have been more clear, I meant that of the thief kits the swashbuckler is the best archer since it gets those nasty bonuses to hit and damage. Not quite as good the archer ranger but it is certainly the best for the thieves which oddly have no ranged kit. Think of those swashbuckler bonuses using the tuigon bow or similar (or my favorite with the firetooth and pulse ammo which is just nasty). That damage really adds up.

 

I agree that a swashbuckler would be the better option as compared to any other thief class, but I still don't quite agree with "not quite as good as the archer ranger" comment.

Just look at them side by side.

Swashbucklers get a +1 bonus to hit and damage every 5 levels. Archers get it every three levels. Swashbucklers can only put one proficiency point in missile weapons, while archers can place 5. That's more to hit, more damage, and perhaps most importantly, it will give them a full extra attack per round. Also because archers are a ranger kit, they get the THAC0 bonuses of rangers i.e., an improvement of 1 in THAC0 every time they level (up to level 20). Swashbucklers use the thief THAC0 table (with the bonus every five levels of course). Finally, archers, as a ranger kit, get an extra 1/2 attack a level 7, and another 1/2 at level 13.

So archers, as compared to swashbucklers, will hit more, do more damage each time they hit, and will attack two more times per round (one from grandmastery as compared to proficiency, and the other from being level 13). Don't get me wrong - I love swashbucklers and have played them many times - but it each case the purpose of my swashbuckler was to be a melee combatant. If you wanted to use a swashbuckler with some type of missile weapon, you'd be better served by using a thrown weapon - like a throwing dagger or axe - that second proficiency point in that weapon would grant you at least some additional bonus (I think it's +1 hit, +2 damage) and an extra 1/2 attack.

 

Ummm Aldeth, thats what he said!

If you have to have a thief that is also an archer, swashies make the best archers, but are still not as good archers as rangers archers.

And fighter archers own all because they can dual class to anything!

 

I interpreted his statement that "not quite as good as a ranger archer" to mean that they were close. I believe they are not.

 

There is a Sharpshooter Kit in one of the mods, basically turns a Thief in to an Archer. It's either Rogue Rebalancing or the other Rogue mod, not at home right now to check.

 

It's too bad sneak attack isn't allowed. The sneak attack ability in NWN made a thief archer one of the most deadly combatants in the game.