The People vs. Haer'Dalis

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Thanks for all the info guys now I'm going to play a game and for the first time ever have Haer'dalis as a permanent NPC. Before all this I thought bards where the worst class in the game. You have now converted a heathen!!

 

I'll take your word for it, but they still seem a little wussy, just like a watered down K/M with a few other moderate skills, i'm sure any sorcerer with more than half a brain could decimate a blade.

I cant see a bard fitting in a party and doing a better job at what he does than anything else, they're a watered down class with only the bardsong as an extra to anything if you ask me.

 

I truly don't beleive that a F/M/T could possibly be beaten by a Blade. I play with Haer'Dalis all the time, but my F/M/T still kicks ass all over the place. He's got better fighter skills, better thief skills and better mage skills than Haer'Dalis, so why is it that he's better than a F/M/T? Imagine casting Mislead, then backstabbing again and again until no one is left alive!

Besides, whatever beef spells Haer'Dalis has, a F/M/T has the same or better. The only advantage I can see is the really quick level up.

 

Haer'Dalis is funny, versatile and the level ups really help early on! I love him to bits and when it fits with my game parameters I always take him. His dialogues rock, and while I wish he were a Skald rather than a blade, his talents come in really handy!

 

I think he'd be better as a Jester, being an actor and all. Plus, Jesters are sweet.

 

@Septic Yogurt
I think Blades barely fit in at any party. IMO, Blades are better off soloing than being with others since this cuts down some of their versatility. I think this is why Haer Dalis never gets too powerful in any game.

[ November 06, 2003, 03:23: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

First off, this is the SoA forum, so HLA and Improved Bard Song don't come into play here. F/M/T can cast Mislead, has better fighter, mage AND thief skills. A F/M/T has better weapon Profs. than a Blade.

Mislead + Slayer + Backstab is unstoppable
Mislead + Tenser's + Backstab is unstoppable

The thing that makes a Blade a good character is the Offensive Spin. That and the quick level up are the only advantages a Blade has over a F/M/T.

I'm not dissing Blades, but they aren't as powerful as a F/M/T.

 

I seem to have forgotten that this is an SoA forum. Discard my reasons above.

First off, this is the SoA forum, so HLA and Improved Bard Song don't come into play here. F/M/T can cast Mislead, has better fighter, mage AND thief skills. A F/M/T has better weapon Profs. than a Blade.
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No doubt about that.
Ahhhhh... but in SoA the Bard is the more powerful spellcaster.
The F/M/T has more spells... The Blade has more powerful spells. The Blade's Tensor's will turn him into a level 20 fighter instead of the F/M/T's, and his skull traps will be much more painful.
As for which being the better fighter, a level 20 fighter VS the F/M/T.

Mislead + Slayer + Backstab is unstoppable
Mislead + Tenser's + Backstab is unstoppable
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Generally correct... but I don't think that's an option against things immune to backstab and enemies who can see through invisiblity.
Slayer + Offensive Spin is a more universal option - and is very effective.

The thing that makes a Blade a good character is the Offensive Spin. That and the quick level up are the only advantages a Blade has over a F/M/T.
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You forget much higher levels. The Blade's superior levels makes his spells and skills much stronger.

I've no doubt the F/M/T is also very strong... but his low levels is a very big weakness IMO.


BTW,
I'm making a Blade FAQ in the ToB forums... it would really help if you can give comments and arguements later.

 

I am a roleplaying powergamer (if that's possible). I like to have the most powerful character, then roleplay him. I have played every character (except Undead Hunter for some reason) and I like to think I'm a pretty good BG2 player. In my expierience, a F/M/T is more powerful than a Blade. The amount of spells that rise per level of the caster is inconsequencial when you have so many other ways of killing your prey.

I have nothing agianst Blades. They are my least favorite Bard, but that's not saying a lot since I really like Bards. I prefer a Skald or Jester because of the Bard Song - which I think defines a Bard - but Blades are the sh*t.

Offensive Spin is the most powerful ability in the game. I'll admit that. Blades are very powerful. I know that. But a high level F/M/T is the daddy of them all. Throw Crom and Celestial Fury in the package plus the Ring of Gaxx, Helm of Brilliance and the Robe of Vecna and you've got yourself one helluva killer.

 

I'm sure I've asked this before, but didn't get an answer, in a different thread....

Someone said that Haerry can get specialization in long swords, the same as he already has for short swords -- well, is it just long swords, or does he just plain get to specialize in ANY weapon available to blades...?

 

When you pick Haer'Dalis up he has two points in short swords and one point in longswords. As he gains proficiencies, you can assign whatever weapons you like, but you cannot assign more than one point in any particular weapon, just like any other Blade. However, at a certain level (and I can't remember what level), Haer'Dalis gains an extra point in longswords for free. That was quite a pleasant surprise.

 

Thank you for your clear and quick answer!

 

Hi guys, I'm new to the boards.

I'm planning on using Haer'Dalis as my party's leader in my next game, anyone got experience with that? I mean: is he going to be killed too easily if used as a frontline fighter?

Anyway, I will have plenty time to think about it, since I'm going to take a chaotic neutral half-elf diviner (to become sorcerer in BG2) through the entire saga

 

It will be a while before Haer'Dalis has the hit points to field initial attacks, although his spells can make him hard to hit. I always have my PC as leader. If you will be playing a sorcerer, use one of the party formations which puts the party leader at the back.

BTW, I'm not sure that when you import a BG1 character into BG2 you can change a mage into a sorcerer. You should test this by using your current BG1 savegame. I would hate for you to be disappointed.

 

I'm pretty sure you can't make him a sorcerer since a sorcerer is a completly different class than a mage (just like a Barbarian is with Fighter or Ranger). You could always use Shadow Keeper.

As for Haer'Dalis, having someone as your leader does not neccessarily mean that they're going to be the first to enter combat. If you're playing an evil party and have Viconia, I'd recommend taking her as your leader. She can get very high Charisma (21, I think) by using different items like Balduran's Plate (you'll need to boost her STR for that) and that Amulet you get from Dierdre (sp?) that only clerics can use. Not to mention the Helm of Glory.

 

Last night I tried it out, but I couldn't import my BG1 character. I have him exported and I am running a fully patched version of BG1 (with TotSC) and BG2 (with ToB). With 'fully patched' I mean the official final patches for both games. Anyone knows what I'm doing wrong?

 

hmmm... you've got to put you're .cha file in the "Characters" folder. Then you go into the game and do the whole import thing.

 

Thanks, it worked! I didn't realise that you had to manually move all the necessary files to the BG2 map.

And yes, you can't make a mage into a sorcerer when importing to BG2. Maybe a bit off-topic, but I think it would be nice if there existed a mod that made the sorcerer class available in BG1, for those players who want to play the whole saga with a sorcerer. I think sorcerer is just the most logical choice from a role-playing perspective, since they are believed to have the blood of a god or dragon running through their veins.

 

i personally dislike Haer'Dalis as well
i mean, in my perspective, Bards are totally useless!!!!
i mean, they have the abilities of a theif AND a mage!!
you might as well be a mage/theif!!!!!!
the only things bards are special for is their songs
which i have found to be useless for MY specific parties