The People vs. Haer'Dalis

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Heerscher,
Ever tried Tutu? You should be able to play a sorcerer the whole way through the saga with that.

 

Cmon Guys, were not talkin bout' sorcerers. Were talking about Haer'Dalis's crappiness. Ivellos, Bards can be pretty useless sometimes, but in certain circumstances, they are a godsend.

 

i've used haer'dalis many times to singlehandedly defeat dragons - he just never gets hit, it's as simple as that

 

i still think the blade is a weak class.... i'd take a pure sorcerer anyday in comparison, they would spend more time scraping Haer`Dalis from their boot than actually fighting him, and my party easily trounced all those circuis freaks when they didn't pay up .

 

lets compare sorcerers and bards

SORCERERS
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1. lots of spells memorized and ready for use
2. choose any spells at every level gain
3. has powerful weapons available(boneblade +4,Stilletto of Demarchness)
4. spells get VERY powerful at higher levels
5. restricted t omage robes and i think elven chainmail armor
6. less weapons due to class restrictions

BARDS
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1. Bard song can do some good in battle
2. not as many mage spells or as powerful
3. more armor and weapons available due to class
4. thieving abilities
5. chance of spell memorizing failure

[ November 11, 2003, 16:53: Message edited by: Ivellos the Bladesinger ]

 

What? Bard's spells get more powerful than a Sorcerer because, as a rogue he levels up way faster. In SoA, the level cap is 23 for a bard and 17 for a mage/sorcerer.

 

One thing else you should mention:

Unless it's elven chain, bard's can't cast spells while wearing armor, so what's the point?

 

M - E - L - O - D - I - C C - H - A - I - N

 

I like Haer'Dalis a lot as an NPC, he's interesting, and he can be powerful. The problem is his cruddy CON. I mean, 9?! Is there an item somewhere that I've missed to boost his CON to something useful so he can be put on the front line?

 

con doesn't matter at all

i use him in the frontline all the time with stoneskins, mirror image, blur, improved invisibility, etc

then he casts defensive spin and everyone attacks him (and misses), meanwhile machine gun mazzy just picks them off with her bow from afar

he can also get a lot of attacks with offensive spin/belm/kundane/improved haste

*spells cast at higher level much earlier!!!*
how many times does this need to be reiterated?
bards level up much faster - chromatic orb absolutely kills!

one other thing with sorcerers and bards - bards have ridiculously high lore, even haer'dalis who gets half of what normal bards get

 

That's not such a big deal though, since with the Goggles of Indentify you can indentify as much stuff as you can get. And you can even get 2 of them.

 

A level 20 Blade wielding Belm and the Crom Faer, with 3 attacks per round (+1 with offensive spin), about -11 THAC0 (1 Fighter THAC0, +7 from 25 strength, +2 from wielded weapon, +1 Offensive Spin, +2 Tensor's), an AC lower than -10, hitpoints as high as a fighter's, and doing maximum damage (about 27 or so - 8 raw + 14 from 25 Strength, +2 from weapon, +1 from Offensive Spin, +2 Tensor's) with each hit is a force worth reckoning in SoA - especially when he casts a level 20 introductory Skull Trap to liven things up before a battle.
These figures are not the best - a Blade wielding a +4 weapon with the right items will do more damage and have a better THAC0 and AC.

Fresh from the guide...
Those figures can easily apply to Haer Dalis.

BTW,
why compare a sorcerer to a Blade? Sure the sorcerer wins by a longshot, but they're completely different classes who employ completely different tactics and have completely different functions in any party.

 

I did not forget that. Melodic Chain is Elven Chain, it's just specially enchanted. Asylferund Chain is the same.

Scythesong, you can't use Offensive and Defensive Spin at the same time.

 

Jester's chain too, right? Or is it just Jesters?

 

Jester's Chain is just a fancy suit of chain mail with no special abilities. You can't cast magic while wearing it.

Here's a list of suits of chain mail that you can wear and still cast spells, together with where you can get them:

• Elven chainmail: Trademeet - start a fight between the feuding families.
• Melodic Chain: Bounty hunters in the Planar Prison.
• Elven chain +2. Aran Linvail wears this. Side with Bodhi and you can wear it instead.
• Drow Elven Chain. Guess where you get it. Shame it turns to dust when you leave the Underdark because it's really nice.
• Bladesinger Chain. Take it from the corpse of the black dragon in Suldanessellar.

You can also pick up a few suits of bog-standard elven chain in Suldanessallar, but you'll have something better.

 

@The Avenger

Yes. The Girdle of Fortitude - once a day it can raise the wearer's CON to 18.

After you've killed the Unseeing Eye, go back and kill Gaal (he's waiting for you).

 

I wasn't using Defensive Spin.
Anyways, here's a short summary of my opinions:

Gameplay:

Keldorn:
Keldorn is very useful simply because he can get very powerful with just a few items and without having to cast any buffs at all. He can take down any spellcaster and can save the party from being torn apart by enchantment and conjuration spells - a role that no other can replace. No needs Haer because he needs too much attention and their will be other fighters and mages who, together, could take over his place anyway. No one needs a supertank that has to be buffed up first and can only do so much in one battle at a time - too time consuming and inefficient.

Sorcerer:
The Sorcerer is all the magic you need in SoA, so comparing him with the Blade is quite unfair.

PvP
I've just about all I can stand from people saying Keldorn or a Sorcerer can kill a Haer without lifting a finger, and then concluding that Haer is useless. If you think so, here're some arguements that should settle things.

Keldorn VS Haer Dalis

Oh, yes Haer Dalis can easily tear Keldorn apart with his buffs and enchantments. But Keldorn should be able to cast Dispell to save his own skin, right? Wrong. Four words : Contingency - Spell Immunity: Divination.

Sorcerer Vs Haer Dalis
This isn't exactly much of a challenge. Let's hope your sorcerer manages to think something up before Haer Dalis can tear him to pieces. Why? There are enough items, spells and potions in the game (like Potion of Magic resistance, rings of Gaax, Globe of invulnerability and the Spell-Immunity) that can nullify any spell you can cook up against Haer, and with Haer using Melf's Minute Meteors (which is +5 - no magical protection can save you from that) and going at 10 attacks per round (with improved haste) and doing maximum damage with each hit, and the sorcerer's spells useless, let's hope your sorcerer has the sense to run before he mets a grisly end before the gaping jaws of Oblivion.

 

and if haer'dalis gets silenced, he can still use his spins and attack - a mage/sorcerer that is silenced is a dead wizard

 

i simply mean, a vital party slot would be better spent on a sorcerer, use that spell that makes the sorcerer completely vanish and a clone appear.... hide the clone and pelt the silly blade to the floor. that tactic works in pretty much any situation.

oh yeah, and i also play without the cap, so although its not official, a time stop + two wiltings or maybe an imprisonment may just shut him up.

 

I think the spell you're talking about is "Mislead".