The People vs. Haer'Dalis

Remove all ads!

i'm sure any blade that values his/her life would cast protection from magic on him/herself first before entering combat with a mage

and mislead can be dispelled fairly easily

 

I'm sure that any sorcerer would know to cast Spell Immunity:Abjuration and Divination before entering a duel with a bard. Mislead can't be dispelled then.

Protection from Magic can be dispelled by level 3 spells. The Blade wouldn't stand a chance.

Scythesong,
If you weren't using defensive spin, how did you get -10 AC?

 

A little off topic, but related to Haer'Dalis:

I've started a new game in BGII, with the protagonist as an elven sorceress. My planned party is Haer'Dalis, Cernd, Valygar, Jan, and Anomen - all NPCs I've never really worked with before. I'm hoping to figure out how to use Haer'Dalis as a fighter-type, which it looks like from here I can.

 

What makes you think that Haer'dalis whouldnt cast Spell Immunity: Divination, then summon 5 misleads/project images, and make them sing enhanced bard song/cast spells while Haer'Dalis Hacks up the mages misleads

 

SoA forum! SoA forum!

Enhanced Bard Song doesn't come into play here.

[Yes, quite. Next time either let me know there is ToB content posted in the wrong forum, or wait till I notice it and sanction it.] -Tal

[ November 14, 2003, 23:32: Message edited by: Taluntain ]

 

Because as soon as a few horrid wiltings pelt him, he's dead.

Enough of this.

 

I think I made it very clear before that there are enough items in the game that can make the Blade virtually immune to spells, including imprisonment that doesn't in any way hamper his other abilities.
Aye, but this arguement annoys me.
Anyways, here's a way the Blade can reach -10 AC:
Rings of Gaax (Or Protection Rings, esp +2), Cloak of the Sewers or Cloak of Protection+2, Bladesinger Chain (or Melodic Chain), Improved Invisiblity, Pale Green Ioun Stone (if you have the patch), 17-18 dex and Amulet of Protection.

 

You shouldn't be able to use magical armor with any of the rings/cloaks of protection. Do you have some mod installed that undoes that?

That still wouldn't take you down to below -8 at most, unless you've got something installed to remove the restrictions on equipping a few of those items.

 

I made the necessary dashes to denote the optionals, so they could not be worn with items that would go against wearing them. But I did forget this condition for the Necklace of Protection...
Here's the set-up I was thinking:
BladeSinger Chain (For AC 1).
-3 from Dex, -4 from Rings of Gaax, -1 from Cloak of the Sewers, -4 from Improved Invisibility, -1 from Ioun Stone. A total of -12 AC... - wierd. In my com it was a total of -10 and I had Protection from Evil on, which adds +1 AC against evil creatures, but I hadn't counted this since I assumed we were talking about general AC.

 

add blur for more AC droppage

i had my blade down to about -17 AC with defensive spin, improved invisibility and blur, bracers +6 and a ring of protection +1
added mirror image and finished off bodhi, no sweat

 

'rings of Gaxx?'

There's only one Ring of Gaxx in the game without cheating, and it's not -4AC.

You can't have improved invis on all the time, so I can't count that. Besides, most tough enemies will dispell it.

 

I dont have a clue where you got the idea that even a level 17 sorcerer would lose to Haer Dalis. But anyway your just plain wrong. Since you like to count items, so will I. Ill be taking a robe of vecna and amulet of power for my sorc. Dont forget potion of vocal, or watever. Then again the chances of you silencing my sorc before time stop are slim to none. Assuming with both have contingencies and are fully buffed Ill get off my time stop. A spell strike, and a Pierce sheild (level 8 spell that takes off all spell protection). You cast breach when we drop out of time stop, (or foolishly your own time stop) or spell strike. I cast stone skin or protection against magical weapons. You can attack me, and lose since Ill get off my imprisonment in less than 3 rounds, If you cast another breach I win anyway. GG no re.

Dont ever compare a blade to a sorcerer again.

If you want ask me to elaborate on the time stop thing for you. And your ac means ****, better you had worn some magic resistance robes, are sorcerer rarely kills physically. Once we get 2 levels into TOB thats the end of any class vs sorc.

Your right I should add something about Blades. I dont find blades all that useful since I prefer fighters to have as little need for preparation as possible. That said a Blade is wonderful with the back up of archers and spell casters. Park him in a doorway with defensive spin and kill kill kill while he doesnt take any damage. This is how I beat Tactics De'Arnise keep basement out of Chatue Irenicus.

[ November 18, 2003, 05:33: Message edited by: Strifestrike ]

 

just use a scroll - prot from magic and run around and hack the sorcerer to bits

why are we comparing sorcerers to blades anyway? different classes, different strengths

a 100% magic resistant berserker would kill anything anyway!

this thread was about the merits of using haer'dalis, not comparing him with level 17 magic users - there is another post on that somewhere else

 

'rings of Gaxx?'
There's only one Ring of Gaxx in the game without cheating, and it's not -4AC.
====================>
Yes. I was thinking about having two, since the game can allow you to have two.
That's why it's -4AC - but it wouldn't matter with the -1 AC from the Ring of Earth Control. That's still -11 total AC.

You can't have improved invis on all the time, so I can't count that. Besides, most tough enemies will dispell it.
====================>
You asked how a Blade can reach -10+ THAC0. I merely answered your question.
Most tough enemies will *try* to dispell it, so try to keep this from happening.

Do I have to repeat myself over and over that there are enough items in the game that can make the Blade practically immune from magic? Rings of Gaax? Amulet of MR? Potions of MR? Scroll of PoM? And if the Blade were evil Human Skin would raise it enough to match a Monk's.
Let me ask you then... what is a sorcerer going to do against a character that is immune to any offensive spell he can come up against, able to slay anything he can conjure up without much problem, and able to defend himself against the the few spells in the game that can go through MR, i.e. Imprisonment and Lower Resist? Protection from Magical Weapons, and your sorcerer's last recourse would be to flee or hide.
Timestop , timestop. Just be sure your sorcerer has killed Haer before it's over, and the chances of that are...

A spell strike, and a Pierce sheild (level 8 A spell strike, and a Pierce sheild (level 8 spell that takes off all spell protection). You cast breach when we drop out of time stop, (or foolishly your own time stop) or spell strike. I cast stone skin or protection against magical weapons. You can attack me, and lose since Ill get off my imprisonment in less than 3 rounds, If you cast another breach I win anyway. GG no re.
==========================>
1) This is SoA and your sorcerer's going about casting Imprisonment? There's not even a scroll of that in SoA... and if your sorcerer does manage to find one, Haer has two Protection from Magic Scrolls to keep him comfy.
2) Let's hope your sorcerer can cast anything at all with Haer bombarding him with Melf's Minute Meteors, which is +5 by the way and I doubt any spell can defend against that except Absolute Immunity.
3) Sorcerers who like to play Gaax end up being Ring of the Ram-med or Ring or Energy-ed, causing spell failure.

If you want ask me to elaborate on the time stop thing for you. And your ac means ****, better you had worn some magic resistance robes, are sorcerer rarely kills physically. Once we get 2 levels into TOB thats the end of any class vs sorc.
===========================>
Haer's AC WILL mean something once your sorcerer realizes that all his spellcasting will come to nothing.


Your right I should add something about Blades. I dont find blades all that useful since I prefer fighters to have as little need for preparation as possible.
===========================>
Okay, I understand that. I know too well what an unprepared Haer or Blade is like - he's just barely decent.

I was only defending Haer because blades were being attacked PvP, and unfairly judged as a result.

[ November 18, 2003, 08:24: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

What's stopping the sorc from using the Protection from Magic scroll as well?

Mislead + Protection from Divination. I'd love to see you try and hit him with any weapon through that.

I can think up several nasty strategies that either could use. Suffice it to say, if you know what you're doing, both can be pretty powerful.

 

My liking for bards, and as such Haer'Dalis, is their versatility -- the old Jack of all Trades and Master of None idea. If necessary, a Bard can be a fairly effective spellcaster. He can also be a fairly effective fighter. He can act in a support role in that his song can bolster the party. He can save you money and spell slots with his Lore.

I don't like Blades as much as other Bard kits, as with a lousy song and poor lore they are not sufficiently versatile. They should make a Blade's THACO equivalent to that of a fighter that the same level -- THAT would make me want to take Haer'Dalis a lot more, even though I do about 50% of the time.

 

You can't import a character from BG1 as a Sorcerer, Monk or Barbarian. You have to start with a new BG2 character to use one of these characters, but still worth it.

Why a diviner? If you don't want to go for a munchkin Conjurer, then try a Transmuter as these still have an excellent selection of spells.

You can use Haer'D as a front-line character if he's equipped right. My best game in BG/BG2 was with a Bard as he sat right on the front line. I found use the T formation helpful so I could have two beefy fighter types up front with me. Also, because I wore chain and had a high dex, my AC was up there with the fighters. My Bard was an awesome archer as well.

The thing that helps Bards as support characters is that they can use almost any weapons (just a few they can't - like Comp. LB). So they can use the big bow or xbow for support and stand just back for support melee with a halberd for example.

The biggest reason people hate Bards more than other classes is because they never use them properly and need more thought. Most fighters, clerics, mages have one role and are easy to workout.

Hope this helps.

 

My wizard PC can kick any sorcerer's upstart butt. 'Inborn magic'=lame.

Sorcerers are the lamest idea WOTC/D&D has ever come up with. Magic should be left to the wizards.

I thought bards were a silly class concept. Then the sorcerer came along and assumed that place.

I'd take Haer'Dalis over Kelsey anyday no matter how 'powerful' sorcerers are. Tsk. The youth of today just don't know how to roleplay anymore.

 

Ok then, take ure scroll or protection of magic. Ill take a staff of magi. Now then, this is going to be a long, long fight.


Screw this, were both bieng idiots. When you argue pvps where both chars can have any friggin item in the realms you know ure gonna be in a long debate. Ill have one hand of vecna, and eye will be nice as well. Honestly, its pure stupidity to continue this arguement. How about we settle that the chars have different strengths.

 

Yeah? I'll take the Head of Vecna, then! Fear my almighty power!

Bonus points to those who recognize this gag!
Even if it IS a dreadful one.