The Perfect Character

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@Eltan

This is so wrong.
A section of the deffinition of perfect from www.dictonary.com is below

A F/W/T multi class has a defect. It can't cast as high level spells as a vinnila wizard. And they have to memorise spells unlike a sorcerer.
There is a defect in every possible class.

 

Exactly RotKU and thank god too. The game would totally suck otherwise.

 

yes, there are defects in every possible class BUT which class can have the least defects?

can a sorc disarm traps or open doors?

can a thief cast spells?

can a fighter sneak around?

the answer is up to you. a sorceror can take down a fighter if he manages to get his spells off, a fighter can take down a mage if he can stop a mage from casting his spells (disrupt spells), a thief will die horribly to a fighter in a toe to toe, a monk may own a fighter from the sheer amount of damage he can deal...

so who is the least vulnerable? i would say some sort of fighter-thief.

consider:
mage/sorceror against fighter-thief

mage has to guess what defenses does the fighter have? should he stick with just defenses with his chain contingency/spell trigger? or should he go for all out offense? what if the fighter has Immunity to Magic on?

the fighter has to consider what spells is the mage going to throw? simple answer would be to use protection from magic, but that doesn't allow the fighter to kill the mage if the mage casts protective spells like protection from magical weapons and improved invisibility.

whose job is simpler? who can do more for less? of course, if you are considering all the mods out there, nerf this nerf that, uber this uber that, then it is very difficult to say for sure. personally i have only SoA and ToB, patched, no mods. and my opinion is that a fighter-thief should be very much the best there can be.

 

I said F/M/T with out exp nerf. My F/M/T with 13 million exp now can cast 9th level spells happily, has a thaco of -9 and has 100 on every theif ability. The only thing he cant do is heal, but then again he doesnt need to, i cant remember the last time he was damaged more than 20 hp. Im saving him for the improved firkragg mod that was promised to me.

This character obviously has no defects.

Sorcerer will not lose to fighter with magic res, he will cast time stop before fighter can bust down his stone skin, improved altric, 3 lower resistances, another time stop, another improved altric, a bunch of abis, and win. He can do this with any enemy that cannot counter cast as many 9th level spell combos (time stop+ improved altric). The only counter to a high level sorcerer with vecna is... dun dun dun... another high level sorcerer!

Btw about protection from magic there is a counter to that, however it is not a neccessary counter, since ure allowed to have any item for this fight, I give the sorcerer the big metal unit and let him cast melfs. With pro from weapons and 5 attacks per round he'll wittle down that ole fighter long before he runs out of protections.

 

As I was saying, no mods... exp cap remover is a mod that removes the exp cap.

Yes, your F/M/T is good but it is a CHEATED good since it is over the exp cap limit. It is not allowed in either the original SoA or ToB or the patches. You want to un-nerf, undo stuff that is official, use unofficial mods, fine, I can use a mod that gives the fighter Protection from Magic of unlimited duration, spell scrolls that allows fighters to cast them... what is the use of such an argument?

The only argument that really means something is the one that uses something everyone has SoA, ToB and official patches, no mods.

As I said before, the best should be a fighter-thief. You can't have True Sight on 24/7(you'll run out of spell slots) but the fighter-thief can have Stealth on all the time. The fighter-thief can take his tme to kill your sorceror. Even with inivisibility on, he can still spot you using detect illusion.

How does a sorceror have 5 attacks per round in the first place? Exp cap removed? BMU doesn't give you 5 attacks per round. It just improves your AC. Using Melf's Meteors Sorc vs a Crit Striking Kai Kensai, or Kai Greater Whirlwind, I very much doubt the sorc may survive. Of course, I'm talking about a scenario without mods.

With mods, all bets are off. Everyone is the best with the mods that favour them. Ridiculous argument.

 

And your F/W/T has to memorise spells which shows a defect in him. Sorry I just think you are trying to achieve the impossible.

 

Energy discs gives the sorcerer 9 attacks per round, and some of the weapon spells give him 5.

Any sorc that relies on MMM doesn't know how to use his abilities fully. In the scenario you described (vs. the Kensai), if he casts protection from magic weapons, then follows up with a chain contigency with 3 abi's, that kensai is pretty much screwed.

Don't mock a class until you've played with it.

 

there are no such thing as a perfect character

anyway i think a fighter:kit\thief come close:

can cast spells from scrolls
can backstab
can use thief abilities
is a good fighter

everything in one ^_^

but as i said.....there are no such things as a perfect character....legit way anyway.

 

He said pro magic scrolll rastor. And I totally forgot about energy blades, mainly cause i never used em.

Anyway, without mods I already said that the sorcerer is the most powerful character, though not perfect. There is no perfect character.

 

Please... I've played SoA through to ToB using every class and almost every dual/multi class combo except archer-cleric and wizard slayer-thief/mage.

If you are talking purely SoA/ToB, I do know what I'm talking about, just that I forgot those Energy Discs.

No mods, a fighter(any kit)-thief is the most powerful. Spells can be cast using scrolls or wands. If the sorceror is unfortunate enough to step into a trapped area, he's as good as dead. And all the contigencies in the world isn't going to help him.

 

In a straight up battle there is no way in the world a fighter theif beats time stop. Period. Time stop> fighter-theif. Do you understand? Fighter thief < time stop. Fighter thief=0 Time Stop=1

Dont patronize me, Ive probably played the game as much as you and know most of its nuances. I have played Kensai dualed to theif before, yes its good, sorcerer is better in a straight up fight. If their allowed to prepare however, u can trap an area, but I can skull trap an area. You can have fun walking into a bunch of traps that do 30d1 damage.

 

Sorry but can I also say that there is no such thing as the most powerful character either. Some characters are more powerful in different situations. Lets look at a normal fight against some random goblin. Here IMO an archery would be best, because they could kill the goblins from a distance in one shot per goblin. But if you were in a fight against vampires I wouldn't even try without a cleric (unless playing solo) or an undead hunter. Or then fighting a strong wizard, it would be so much easier if you had a powerful wizard as well. Characters all are more powerful in their own circumstance.

 

Yes, you can skull trap an area. But so can a fighter-thief skull trap an area. Use any item ability remember?

What about Time Stop, my foolish friend? tell me, how about Time Trap and Time Stop? Hmmmm?

Since you know the nuances of the game then you surely know that a fighter-thief can also Time Stop as well. And he can do time trap a No-Magic area too. Oh, don't tell me that is not possible. There's one in the Watcher's Tower. Show me a place in SoA/Tob where traps don't work... Hmmmm?

Find traps? Your sorceror can't do that. Can he?

There's a sure-die trap like that is TotSC in Durlag's Tower. But it is a pity there isn't such a thing in BGII.

Traps and snares are more reliable than spells, afterall, there are spells that protect from magical damage as well as other types of damage.

The sorceror can do lots of amazing things with magic. Sure, he can cast a lot of spells, but does he have a spell for all occasions? Every spell in the book? No? Pity. A mage would do better, I think. But a mage does come with its own set of difficulties, unfortunately.

 

If you want to talk about the flat out versatility of a character F/M/T beats F/T. If you want to talk about which character will win in a fight, Sorcerer will. This is not an issue, I agree F/T is more versatile than a sorcerer, most classes are, but hes not more powerful in a fight.

Please dont ever compare time stop and time trap, the difference between the 2 is quite large.

 

The purpose was to point out that the thief has more options to stop time than a sorceror. And you won't know that you've triggered a time trap until the time suddenly stops.

An F/M/T cannot use kits, a dual F/T can. And a F/T has access to more thief HLA than a F/M/T. And have more hit points too.

 

The time trap isn't anywhere close to being the equivalent of time stop.

No mage in his right mind will be walking around without stoneskin. Guess what? That just removed the benefit of time traps (multiple backstabs).

No he didn't. He said that as part of the sarcasm of his post.

What's the point of this thread anyway? If you know how to play a character, that's the perfect character.

A sorc could simply imprison that Kensai thief. Traps and Magic Resistance won't do a thing to stop that.

I could give a character gargoyle boots, meaning that you can't backstab.

If you want to have a true debate, items pretty much have to be removed from the equation.

F/M/T has long been accepted as the easiest character to solo.

Wouldn't the perfect character be the one that's the most fun to play? For you, it's your fighter/thief. For me, it's the sorcerer.

 

I agree with Rastor. The game is about having fun, right? I doubt, even if convinced, you guys would go with the other's character choice anyway. Me...I think a Ranger is the best character. I know how to play them and for me, they offer the funnest experience. They are built for my personality and playing style. Thus, perfect for ME, and that's all that matters. If you're strategy is good enough, any character can beat everyone else. In a game where there are so many possibilities, an arguement like this does seem a bit moot, no?

 

Actually I use a Berserker-Thief. Time Trap is only the beginning, follow up Time Trap with Time Stop and after that fire a Breach wand, and then Imprison.

Berserk confers immunity to imprisonment, btw.

The thing is that any really offensive spell you've got can be cast by a thief from a scroll or wand. That pretty much eliminates your spell casting advantage. Leaving the fighter thief with open lock, detect/disarm traps more than the sorc.

 

Point taken, however how many high level scrolls are out there anyway? You can walk throughout the entire game with maybe 10 time stop scrolls, I can walk into every battle with the ability to cast timestop 5-6 times, although I would also cast improved altric. Everyones right, the game is based on how you play, I do not find sorcs the most fun, I like Fighter thief the most as well, high damage back stabs are fun. This doesnt change the fact, that in a 1v1 pvp a sorcerer would beat any other class.

 

@Death Rabbit

That's just what I've been trying to say!
I'm glad someone else agrees