The Smear Campaign Against Kerry

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@ Aldeth

First off, I wasnt referring to the average American.

Secondly, its not my intend to insult anyone. Others, however, do that by deeming themselves better than the rest...

Third, I know some of your people and I consider them to be my friends.

Fourth, concerning the 'considerable part' - the part that is to vote for Bush - I will stand by that. I cannot understand why someone would still vote for Bush after all that has happened. They definitely dont share the reality that I experience. Nor do they seem to see the damage your President is doing to your country.

Finally, I apologize if I have insulted you or any other American here. Perhaps my words were not wisely chosen, but I think my point is valid.

 

I can't help it. But roughly 160 options to choose from, all equally insignificant I'm told when compared to the one and only, and it ends up to be France. Someone should define randomness again for me. I still think that's a kind of symbolism.

I think politics are mostly merely a stage. And on this stage, Bush as been directed to mime something like a solider. Not talking much, just doing what a man has to do. A doer, not a talker. Ha, turning grammatical weakness into strengh, a marketing achievement. Kerry on the other side, is a wannabe-soldier that has swindled his way to some medals and then quickly ran home. No backbone, that becomes apparent when he talks, he makes simple things sound complicated to hide that he has no clear stand on issues.

 

Okay- What's the point of Namibia liking us yada yada yada.......

I just chose France 'cause i'm pretty sure most of the French don't think very highly of "the one and only". I stand by my statement, insert any America-hating country that you wish...

I find many Americans (excluding Bigots which appear in any country) don't think there "better" than every other country. I find that is some kind of defense mechanism/slander other countries like to use on us. Don't be so paranoid and insecure.

 

@ Dendri - no problem - we're cool

I don't care if his Purple Hearts were received because of a paper cut, a stubbed toe and a in-grown toe-nail from stubbing his toe. The mere fact that he was close enough to action to get hit by a piece of shrapnel of any size tells me he saw live action.

I can't see how risking you life to push up your political career makes a whole lot of sense. Dead people have a hard time winning elections.

Well, as far as the rich and privileged part go, that applies to pretty much every president we've ever had. So yeah, that sounds like 40+ other people I know. The fact that Kerry is worth hundreds of millions of dollars and Bush is worth tens of millions of dollars doesn't make much difference to me - they're both rich and privileged. As far as the spineless part goes, I've said my peace on that. He served. He got wounded. He came home. If he's spineless doesn't that make Bush even MORE spineless? He wimped out and joined the National Guard and bravely defended the skies of Alabama during Vietnam between his drinking binges. And I don't know how Bush has, "stubborn balls". I have no idea what that could possibly mean, so I really can't comment on it.

 

Oh so Kerry seeing action in Vietnam makes him the right choice to lead our country? All i've heard Kerry boast about is his service in Vietnam. That's the only thing he's running on- that and the mistakes of W. Maybe it's because as a politician he's done diddly-****! He is a limp-wristed schmuck! He had to lobby and convince the higher-ups to get the purple hearts, real f'in tough. Even his appearence on the Daily Show w/Jon Stewart (which was definitely meant to make him seem "hip") showed how distant he really is from the public. Did they talk about anything current or go into detail any issues? Nope, it was all Vietnam. My Uncle served in Vietnam (recieving a purple heart for a REAL injury-you could spot it on him from twenty-feet today). He was in hell. Maybe he should write a book and run for office.

So what if Bush served in the reserves getting drunk? So did a lot of servicemen i've talked to. There's not much for them to do but drink and whistle at the ladies. Bush isn't saying he's a role model for young recruits. Bush knows he was a wild-child back in the day, so what?!

Sorry about my "Stubborn Balls" comment, didn't mean to blow minds (j/k)

And finally Kerry had no intention of dying for his country, he wanted to serve yet stay as safe as possible. He was scared as hell when he found out his little Swift Boat choice would send him into actual combat. It put a wrench into his plans. I'm not saying he isn't intelligent.

 

How have you guys ended up in a situation where you have to choose between two leaders you don't like? I thought the USA was the model of the greatest democratic system in the world?

 

@ Sauron,

Can you actually back up anything you have to say with any merit? Specifically regarding how Kerry "felt," or his emotional state, or what his ambitions were 35 years ago? Because every one of your criticisms of him revolve around aspects you have no possible way of knowing. Unless you're Kerry's shrink or have some intimate knowledge about his inner thoughts and intentions, you're talking out the wrong end here buddy.

Hell - I hate the Bush administration as much as anybody here, and even I'M not enough of a hack to claim that "...Bush's ambition was to x" or "...Bush had no intention to x 30 years ago." Gimme a break.

Have you ever even watched the Daily show? First off - it's a comedy show. Did you expect discussions about real issues, or jokes about the absurdity of modern politics? Second, they barely spoke about VietNam, and you would know that if you'd actually watched it. When Kerry was talking about the issues, Stewart interrupted with a joke about the idiotic claims of the SBVT. And if you really think Kerry has accomplished "diddly-****" as a politician and that VietNam is the ONLY thing Kerry is running on, I just have to ask you...how many hours per week of Fox News do you watch? Just curious.

[ August 25, 2004, 23:24: Message edited by: Death Rabbit ]

 

1. I've watched the Daily Show since Kilborn hosted it so spare me your snotty remarks. I love the show (Comedy Central, for that matter) so I think i get the premise.

2. I don't watch Fox News- I hate any network that would give Bill O'Reilly a show

3. I've made my comments based on different liberal AND conservative news programs, newspapers, etc.

4. Okay then what did Kerry talk about other than the Smear Campaign(almost the whole time), a possible debate with W.(a minute, if that), and a few campaign slogans(not to be confused with issues.)? And what has he accomplished as a senator?

5. I fart and poo out my ass. I use the same hole to talk out of that most humans use.

6. Don't get personal- I use to do that a lot in these forums and then reading them later felt like a jerk.

7. We are all friends in this (Sorcerer's) place despite our political differences

8. I do not support George Bush!!

9. I don't understand what your middle paragraph has anything to do with I wrote

[ August 25, 2004, 23:52: Message edited by: Sauron the Puppy ]

 

I don't know. It just looks like a pattern. A integral part of the same package with the same lines, the same sentences, the same punctuation. Like an audiotape, identical copies all over. 08/15. A never ending déja vu...

Namibians are probably Anti-American too. Like the French. I mean, a big part of Namibians are Owambos and that's Angolans and that kind...

 

@Iago
What? I think i'm gonna get what you said tattooed on my back because it's so profound....

Check, please!

 

/me gets a bag of popcorn and settles back to watch the show

 

No, don't worry, I seldom indulge in concise posting. But that was a nice way to say:"...err...so what?". I appreciated that.

 

quote-"I don't know. It just looks like a pattern. A integral part of the same package with the same lines, the same sentences, the same punctuation. Like an audiotape, identical copies all over. 08/15. A never ending déja vu..."


quote-"No, don't worry, I seldom indulge in concise posting. But that was a nice way to say:"...err...so what?". I appreciated that."

No, Iago it was my way of saying "Thats the corniest bit of prose i ever read."

I want some popcorn, too!

I love all you guys! (tears) I'm done squabbling.
You made some good points, everybody, but i'd rather play some BG2. I just started a new game and Sauron the Poopy has to leave all this delightful reality behind......

 

Sorry, but you're one of the main players, and it's not polite to talk with your mouth full.

 

Tell that to the special forces soldier he pulled out of the water while under fire.

I notice you failed to mention his bronze star

So let's just send that welfare to a population whose country we just gtot done blowing up. How smart is that? While we are building schools and hospitals and roads that we destroyed in Iraq, the American taxpayer is now paying to rebuild it all. At the same time Amreica's own schools, roads and healthcare systems are falling apart.

[ August 26, 2004, 00:33: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

@Chandos
Good point on the Welfare remark, but do you think that will stop once Kerry gets in office?

Kerry voted FOR the War in the senate, would he have done something different that wouldn't cost taxpayers money? Now he speaks out against it but hindsight is always 20/20. Do you actually believe Kerry will fix healthcare? Every candidate for the past 25 years have promised to fix LBJ's blunder(Medicare/Medicaid) and has it happened? It's just the usual political rhetoric all politicians spout.

So as long as welfare-abusing people in America get our money it's okay? I'd rather have it go to help people in another country that actually want to attribute something to their society
Sorry, i believe in Capitalism despite it's faults. I wouldn't want to live in a Socialist society ever. I have to work for my money, let others do the same.

 

@ Sauron,

Okay, so you watch the Daily Show. But given the fact that you apparantly expected a hard-hitting political exchange out of a 15 minute interview on a comedy channel suggests you really aren't all that familiar with the format of the show. That's kind of like complaining that Bill O'Reilly cuts somebody's mike and tells them to shut up - anyone familiar with the show shouldn't expect what isn't the standard fare. John Stewart was the one asking the questions. How stupid of him to spend 5 minutes of a 15-minute interview - on his own show - talking about the biggest news story at the moment involving his guest. So getting pissy about Kerry going on about VietNam suggests that you were looking for something to knock Kerry for anyway, rather than to actually enjoy his appearance on a silly fake news show. It's disingenuous at best. I thought his appearance was fine. He showed he can laugh at himself - which was the point of the appearance. No politician ever looks "hip" no matter how hard they try.

Sorry for accusing you of watching Fox news. It's a natural reaction when someone repeats the current GOP talking points as accurately as you did above. You know, "Kerry's wounds were superficial," "he accomplished nothing in his career," "spineless priveledged rich boy," blah blah blah. I've heard the exact same lines repeated by countless Bush apologist wingnuts over the last 2 months ad nauseum like it was from a passed-out script. But if you say you came to these conclusions through your own careful, honest, hard-hitting research, that's good enough for me. My bad.

My middle paragraph refers to the fact that most of your criticisms rely entirely on speculation and discredited rumors, which aren't evidence of anything. I won't nitpick, but here's one example:

Like I said - knowing that would require you to crawl inside John Kerry's head - ala Being John Malkovich - to know what he was thinking or what his motives were. Since Kerry's never said any such thing, and since you have no first hand knowledge of this, you're speculating and giving heed to discredited rumors from bitter partisans. Speculation isn't credible evidence of anything. And when you rely on it to make your points, as you did above, people tend to think you have no idea what you're talking about. How does the expression go...talking out of the place where you fart and poo?

For a brief glimpse of the things Kerry has accomplished in his political career, there are places to find stuff like that out if you actually care to look for them. Not the best most impressive record ever, I concede, but hardly "diddly-****," especially when compared to our illustrious current leader. Of course, if you've already decided that he's a big useless nipple of a man anyway, no amount of pointing out the facts of his record will sway anyone in your position anyway, I suppose.

I haven't taken anything personal here that you've said, and neither should you. I consider everyone here a friend and I value your viewpoint especially because it's different from my own. Echo chambers are no fun. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to sit by when I feel you're blatantly misrepresenting the facts. There's a big difference between me taking something personally and jumping up your ass when I feel you say something ridiculous. Criticize Kerry all you want - just stick to the facts and policy issues, not unprovable smears, and we'll have ourselves an interesting conversation. I'm sure you understand.

Enjoy your BG2 game - no hard feelings.

ps - I spare my snotty remarks to no one.

 

About time a good ole fashioned presumably conservative posted some flammable material in the alley. It has been way too silent lately. Hacken Slash and Grey Magistrate are just not up to the task.

 

Sorry, but this is incorrect. Kerry and the Senate voted to authorize the use of force against Iraq if they didn't comply with weapons inspections, which were working. It was meant as a political tool to force compliance out of Iraq. The Bush administration was going to war anyway and abused this authority. Kerry's criticism of the war now is NOT a flip-flop, it's a principled criticism of the fact that this war has been a disaster from start to finish. This administration didn't plan properly, didn't fund properly, were wrong on almost every justification for this war, and scoffed at/fired anyone that knew better than they did when they tried to get it done the right way. Ignoring educated advice and them accusing people of having 20/20 hindsight for complaining is about as childish as it gets, but that's exactly what the Bush administration did.

By your line of thinking, that's like giving your nephew the keys to your car and him calling you a "flip-flopper" when you get mad at him for running over your neighbor. After all...you gave him the keys!

 

I don't support Kerry or Bush. I'm voting for the candidate I know WON'T win. Where's the Green Party candidate? This will prevent my vote from going either way and round the back.