The Ultimate Tank

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Splunge, define Tank? Is it a char that can absorb lots of damage while dealing it out? M/T can do that.

Anyway, I suppose it's not the best class for this thread, but whatever.

And only 1 spells is offensive. I wouldn't call Breach an offensive spells any more than I would call Dispel Magic one.

 

No, I think you have to consider breach an offensive spell. Dispel magic you can use to remove enchantments from your own people, and so it's a two-way street. But breach exists to peel back the inedible shell and get to the sweet fruity parts inside.

 

@ Mystra - to me (and I concede this might be a rather narrow view), the basic requirements for a tank are:
- lots of HP's
- dish out lots of damage in an extended toe-to-toe battle

Basically, I look at a tank as a front-liner who can take on and distract enemy tanks, thus keeping your non-tanks safe(r).

And I consider Breach to be an offensive spell (it certainly isn't defensive )

 

A blade makes for an awesome tank, AC of -24 is not uncommon. With mirror image, stoneskin and spell immunity:divination, they can really tank it.

 

why aint my post-count counting?!?

and yes a blade CAN make a GOOD tank, but not as good as a Ranger/cleric or a kensait/theif

i think he kai/theif would win...... theif=UAI thus making him mage, sorcere, cleric?

 

Bug or no bug?

In my game at least R/Cs cannot put 3* in dual wield... Am I alone in this? (They should be able to... they just can't!)

 

@Scythe: I put 3 stars in dual-weilding with my R'C's at character creation itself, and I never have any problems. I think you should check your game for bugs.

@Balle: Mate, UAI can only go so far. You can cast spells from scrolls, but what use is it, if you're getting wailed on the whole while? It's going to be spell failure anyway.

You want to use all the uber armor and weapons? Ranger/Cleric can do that for free...atleast, you don't get any more uber than FoA +5/Crom Faeyr.

Kensai/Thief gets bonuses to hit and damage, Ranger/Cleric gets Armor of Faith...at max level, just casting 2-3 of these babies gives him almost COMPLETE immunity to ALL physical damage.

You just can't compete. I don't want to make this a R/C vs K/T thread, because it is concerned with all ultimate tanks.

But...trust me, R/C can pwn K/T's so easily, its not even funny.

 

Hmm, calling breach offensive is a little tricky. Most frontliners will rely on a single casting of that spell, either that or carsomyr.

As for the K/T- i think it can do more damage than a R/C, in the same amount of time at least, but he will expire often.

 

don't forget about a dual-classed fighter/mage :
fighter lvl 9 then dualled to mage.

the character spends his weapon proficiencies on longswords (grand-mastery), 2-weapon-style and (optional) hammers.
the chars wears elven chain, so he can cast spells.

and now the fun : stoneskin, mirror-image, imp. haste and *ta-da* tensers transformation : that's about 200hp, 8 or 9 attacks per round, thac0 of a fighter, the first 10 blows or so won't harm him at all --> what do you want more ??

 

@Faraaz, I've got the latest official patches, but I think there are several other mods which "correct" this. However, the Kensai THACO is ridiculously low compared to R/Cs. Buffs only take you so far. Armour of Faith is NOT supposed to stack... The fact it does is a bug! Hardiness is not supposed to stack either but it does... so just about any fighter class could be 100%immune to physical damage... Unless your opponent is using Carosmyr... In which case your Armour of Faiths don't see out the first round! So I would love to try a dual to see what does actually happen.... May even SK one of each and get them to fight each other. Could be a useful hour...

 

@Scythe: Mate, whether the spell stacking is a bug or not is not the point here...the 'Ultimate Tank' is. At the end of the day, the R/C can be immune to physical damage.

If you do use the Carsomyr on him, and dispel the buffs, he can always cast Iron Skins, (Amulet of Power can be used, which reduces spell casting time by 1 I think, which is always a help), and then heal himself up, and then pwn the Kensai again. The Kensai has really crappy AC also, which means he is going to be taking damage a LOT faster than the R/C.

Again...

Keeping that in mind, the R/C's will only be using self buffs, and if they have max exp points...

Kensai/Thief's with UAI isn't going to be enough to beat the R/C...

 

Enhanced Bard Song X N, where N is a number that approaches infinity + Use Any Item + the Arcane Buffs of the Mage class.

I'm afraid the Blade has no equal.
At his best the Blade stands a very good chance against everything that can possibly be thrown at him.

R/C
The R/C may not use bladed weapons, therefore they lose access to weapons which cause stat-drain, one of the game's undefendable attacks. (Stat drain is different from LVL drain. The latter can be defended against by cleric spells/items) So an R/C may not kill another R/C in battle, especially if both decide to abuse Armor of Faith (multiple castings).
Verily can a Blade do so...

F/T
The F/T can buff himself silly but his offensive prowess remains basically the same... he just becomes a whole world lot harder to kill.

Kensai/Thief
Pure offensive power, but a bit lacking on defense.

[ November 04, 2004, 09:31: Message edited by: Scythesong Immortal ]

 

The blade is a near untouchable tank. He just can't be hit, and for very long periods of time! I use Haer'dalis along with a fully armoured Sarevok as my frontline tanks, and guess who ends up using all the health potions?

 

@Scythesong... I know it is personal preference but multiple misled singing bards counts as cheese to me But if cheese doesn't matter then I guess you are right the blade is able to hit and not be hit better than any other class... Just needs loads of messing about first.

 

I was only being fair. Armor of Faith xN is just as cheesy.
Of course, overcheesiness aside things pretty much narrow down to what you school you think has better buffing spells - the clerical or arcane. Caster-specific wise, I vote for arcane, hence my choice of the Blade.

 

I was a bit disappointed when I finally got to control Sarevok. He was not as powerful as I had thought.

 

I do think that the game is a bit unbalanced. Why? Because in all this discussion we've ended up with not a single Ranger, Paladin or Fighter (other than as a dual or multi class). How sad is that? Even in the fighters area of prowess the spell casters come out top.

 

I woudnt say thats unbalanced.
A high level cleric can make the ground shake and a wizard can make fire rain from the skies.

There is nothing that a melee artist can do that compares to that. You can say that attacks should stun an opponent, regardless of weapon. Or that everyone should get the deathbringer assault. But still no matter his speed a fighter can still not do the kind of mass destruction that magic can.

 

That is more than fair Shrikant... but this about just being a tank! They have all the other stuff as well... At the end of the day the straight fighting classes are NOT the best fighters.

 

Exactly...which begs the question, what IS the ultimate tank?

Having read everyone's opinions, I personally feel that this is like asking which car is better, the McLaren or the Ferrari...they're both great, but there's no clear cut winner.

Every class (almost) in the game has the potential to be more than an adequate tank to smash anything in the game, solo...given max experience, choice of items etc...which is what usually does happen when playing solo.

My two cents of summation.