The Ultimate Tank

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@Faraaz... In a way that is what I was hoping for. There should be some rock, paper, scissors going on for the game to have balance. Shame it is with the various spell casting classes again!.

However, as I always play sorcerors or M/T who create their own tanks and rarely if ever get their hands dirty I wondered if there was a concensus on a fighter type before I tried one. As an observation Kensai/Theif would be one of the worst to actually go through. All those Thief levels unti UAI with no armour, yuk! R/C is powerful all the way through, much more fun.

After all that may just try a Barbarian or a monk... if I had any spell casting at all it would end up playing just the same as it always does -trap, summon, buff, buff, buff, buff, charge, bash, ouch, run away, repeat.

 

Well...on the other hand, if you play a monk or a barbarian...its Charge, Bash, Ouch, Run Away, Repeat...without the Trap, Summon, Buff, Buff, Buff...and all the buffs tend to make the "ouch, run away" come by a lot less frequently...

 

Why do you think I usually play a spell caster ... I missed a step out...usually there is a "artillary bomb" just before the charge! I guess that I was hoping to find a class that needed less buffing and was a bit more resilliant, but I guess it really does not work like that. You need the buffs just to be competative.

 

Again, you only need the buffs to be competitive if you plan to solo. Otherwise, you can more than comfortably use meatshields wreaking havoc up front, with healers healing them up,and mages and archers pelting away from behind.

In that scenario, buffs can be overkill.

 

As we've been discussing though... What makes the BEST meat shield is a spell caster with buffs. I know you can get through as you've said, but it is sad that at high levels haer'dalis is a better tank than korgan!!!

 

It's funny how no one has mentioned a "true" warrior class... Not that I think they are truly better, yet I wonder if game designers had intended some of the most viable competitors for the role of "ultimate tanks" to be mage-thief, kensai-thief or blade...

 

It's because dual and multi-classes are so overpowered in the rules used in BG II. In the IWD II / NWN rules, you can't end up with as many levels (e.g. sacrificing your 13th level of fighter is only worth 1 level of Wizard, not 10).

 

All depends on your definition of "tank" and how far you want to cheese it.

Without systematic abuse of the game, I would say a dwarven fighter/cleric, half-elf fighter/druid, or a human berserker/cleric or berserker/druid. For sheer tanking power, they are simple and effective choices.

Of course, if you want to powergame instead of role-play, then the Blade has it, but that level of micro-management would drive me insane.

 

Metagaming.

If you find yourself thinking "in the next room there are m*x, n*y and o*z, so I'll cast this, that and the third" before you open the door(or cast farsight), then he who has the best buffs is the best tank.

If what you want someone to charge in there with no buffs ( except pssibly HLA's) and buy the blades and F/Ms and R/Cs the time to cast their way to godliness, then you want a monk. Or a barbarian with the Defender of Easthaven in the off hand and Foebane in the main.

 

Excellent point. "Realistically", most parties would wander around very cautiously, constantly checking for traps and always having an invisible / hidden character scouting ahead (but not too far ahead in case they were spotted). You would very seldom have a chance to get all the right buffs on in time unless you buffed continually. Therefore, in "real life", the best tank would be the one who was toughest without spells.

 

Well, that'd make the monk quite good, although eventually you get the damage resistance anyway... Although the barb would be my choice with the DR, rage etc.

 

I agree with Harbourboy and Rudiger, with one reservation. Stoneskin and contingencies last so long that "realistically," anyone able to cast them would do so as soon as they rolled out of bed in the morning. Other than those exceptions (which I think are fairly significant), I agree with the two of them completely.

 

As a fan of the Kensai, I'd just like to point out that they don't necessarily have "crapy armor class" as has come up several times in this thread. Either the Shield Amulet or a Potion of Invulnerability takes care of that little drawback quite nicely.

 

Or, you could just dual-class them into a Mage, and watch the chunks fly!!

Or a thief, and see your backstab damages soar...

Kensai's make great dual-classes, but then, Truper, you will have to forego the excellent (IMHO) HLAs you would get if you had taken a multiclass instead...

Of course, you can always Shadowkeeper the stuff in, but then, that's cheating...

 

I'm actually in the midst of trying dual-classing a Kensai to a mage for the first time. Its been interesting, and now that I have my Kensai levels back, its quite a lot of fun: nothing quite like dealing out the damage while protected by stoneskin, etc.

On the other hand, it was rather painful getting there. I think I waited a level or so too long; my Kensai was level 10 when I dualled him. Were I to try it again, I think I'd do it at level 9. I think overall I prefer the pure Kensai from the roleplay standpoint, and I must say I don't care for dual-classing - if I want a 2 for 1 deal, I think I'll stick to multi. I can't find a good rationale for the way dual-classing works. If you were a plumber, and decided to become an electrician as well, why should that mean you can't fix a leaky faucet until you can rewire a house?

 

That's the way 2nd Ed. DnD works Truper...you'll notice that this problem was very neatly dealt with in 3rd Ed. DnD...

Besides, dual-classing was a very powerful method of gaining the best of both worlds as far as SoA was concerned, prior to ToB's launch.

16 million XP solos tend to take away the charm of dual classes, I admit.

 

I always used to dual... Now I NEVER do. The 9 levels of Kensai are hardly worth it. Esp as you can't have a kit for your new class. The extra spell per level is worth more than a little off your Thaco.

Also the HLA's for Dual classes just ignore the 1st class... a really big disadvantage vs multi class.