United States of Earth

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Jeepers, if we have a restriction on repeating our opinions on these boards, most of the traffic will dry up. Most of us don't have that many new thoughts to add on things, especially as the same topics keep coming up again and again.

 

My opinion of the USA taking over the world? Not a very good idea. We have enough trouble of our own without taking on everyone else s. We have the United Nations trying to do that and it isn't working very well.

Yep, bad idea.

 

Now just hear out my logic, it seems many of our European members view the United States as some sort of homogenous, unitary, central entity, as opposed to what the United States actually is; a federation of dozens of independent states. The Constitution is the greatest form of government possible that maximizes freedom, justice and democratic values. The Constitution focuses only on the most important things and leaves everything else to the people and to the states, as it should be. I saw a member mention the debt crisis, even though that has nothing to do with the Constitution and the fact that Europe is much worse off than we are.

Obviously we would require states to meet a set of criteria before joining, it's not like we're going to invite Zimbabwe to join. It's also not like this is going to happen overnight, as I said, the integration would take decades and it wouldn't be like every country would join at once. Countries like Israel, Ghana, Singapore, the Philippines, Albania, the Czech Republic, etc. would be prime suspects of countries to join us first. These states would be allowed to keep their

So why would we want to enlarge the United States? Because the United States is the first unique country, unlike the powers of old who care only about exploiting other states, the United States values freedom over tyranny, self-determination over colonialism, and republicanism over monarchy. We have a duty and obligation to spread freedom to the world and we have the perfect platform by which to do it.

Now ideally we would have started such a program a century ago, if not earlier, but it's not too late. The United States is the beacon of freedom and hope for everyone, from right-wing capitalists to left-wing communists. Though not often taught nowadays,Vladimir Lenin and Ho Chi Minh, two of the most prominent communists in history were both admirers of the United States and supported us from afar in our mission to end Europe's cutthroat colonialism.

 

The US wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for Europe getting interested in the New World. Ironic, isn't it?

You are theory crafting (and I'm putting it in a mild way). I can tell you've never been to continental Europe let alone Switzerland and you've probably never even talked to a Swiss national. I'm guessing you don't even have a passport...

The Swiss have a partnership with the EU but what they want is first and foremost to be left alone. There is a reason why the HQ for the League of Nations was based in Geneva (and why the European UN HQ is based in Geneva). Switzerland may be a small country but the Swiss are very proud about being neutral and independent.

Hell would freeze over before they'd join the scheme you're advocating and that is a fact.

Besides regarding guns, there is nothing in common between what the NRA advocates and what the Swiss experience. In Switzerland guns are a matter of national security (something that used to make sense for such a small country stuck in the middle of Western Europe) and certainly not a question of self defence. The Swiss don't have a gun culture. It's highy illegal to carry a weapon (concealed or otherwise) and there are very strict regulations regarding the use of guns for sports (ammo is controlled). As a result gun related violence is pretty low.

FYI I'm French and I've lived near the Swiss border most of my life (I even have something of a Swiss accent) so I'm talking out of first hand experience and the only reason why I'm pointing this out is because what you've been posting are gross misconceptions.

Last but not least, everyone loves freedom. If anything people who live under dictatorships and therefore are deprived of it may value and prize freedom even more as a result... If as a citizen you feel that you love freedom so much then perhaps you should be more critical about things like the Patriot Act.

A great American once said: "He who gives up freedom for safety deserves neither."

 

It's comments like these that convince me that AD is messing with us.

 

The USA is not right-wing. It is composed of people from the far right to the far left. Most of us are moderates. As for guns, most of us do not LOVE guns. I do not own one even though my family had rifles and I was taught to shoot before I was twelve. I do not know anyone who carries one. Laws vary through out the USA but most states have strict gun laws. Please let us not get started on guns and the gun mentality. The NRA is loud and wealthy but does not speak for the majority.

Our Constitution works for us but is not perfect. It is difficult to amend. The Presidential Election process should in my opinion be changed. The Patriot Act had me seriously considering immigrating to Canada.

I consider freedom the right to make choices for myself as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others. As far as I am concerned the smaller the government the better.

We have the United Nations perhaps we should be more supportive of that organization.

@Splunge, he or she does not say where he is from. I keep wondering if this is a trap of some kind.

 

While I certainly see the points of those from other countries not wanting to be part of the US, I look at it the same way as Morgoroth does. Specifically, from the US perspective, why would we want to include other nations into our nation? FFS, are we trying to turn into the Borg?

 

Fair enough dmc. I just find it hard to believe that, after the responses AD got in the other thread, he expects that he’s going to get a favorable reaction in this one, which is to a certain extent proposing the same thing. There’s an old saying – “the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”, and I don’t think AD is insane.

Having said that, I’ll respond to AD’s initial post as follows:

Maybe because they are, y'know, already their own countries and probably think they're pretty cool without the need to join the US?

Or maybe because they think that they're actually better than us. They wouldn't want their educational standards to drop. They wouldn't want guns to be freely available like they are here. (Yes, I know that you believe that guns are the be-all for freedom, but most Europeans don't.)

Maybe because they think that our Constitution was a neat starting point but theirs is seriously better? Or because it would probably be a logistical nightmare to try to govern in real time across that many time zones, cultures and unique histories.

Perhaps they don't want to essentially have to choose between the shills put up by two political parties that, generally, are farther to the right than their most main-stream conservative political party?

Perhaps because they just don't think we're all that.
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^ That seems oddly familiar.

 

Why would I want to add any country(ies) to the US that would lessen my "bang for my buck" concerning my tax dollars and how they effect me. More mouths to feed? More moral issues? Really? I already am getting the short end of the stick. AD, your suggestion is plainly....nuts. Imagine the impact on Social Security. It would put the final nail into the coffin of my generation ever seeing a return on it.

 

There are some communists in America, but that doesn't make us a left-wing country, we are and always have been a right-wing country. That's like saying the Soviet Union is a right-wing country, just because the Whites kept fighting after the formation of Soviet Russia.

The American people love guns and the vast majority (80%) of Americans support the right to bear arms. You're in a very tiny minority, whether or not you personally like guns is irrelevant to the fact that Americans love guns. All of the polling data shows that the gun rights movement is growing and we the people have been quite victorious lately; take for instance the movement to overturn the ban on concealed carry at college campuses. The NRA isn't some faceless "new world order" organization, it's made up of people like you and me who care about freedom. I'm not just a member of the NRA, I'm an official volunteer and I do everything in my power to fight for freedom.

Rather than running away from problems and pretending they'll go away, why not be like me and fight them head on? I'm also opposed to the Patriot Act, Anti-Protest Law, Federal Assault Weapons Ban, SOPA/PIPA, the NDAA and other such attacks on our freedom. Don't just runaway and hide in Canada, that's not what being an American is about. As a great American once said: "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

 

Being a US state they get to be the exact same as they are now, only they would have to respect civil liberties, democratic values and a republican form of government. The Constitution is the perfect starting point, it covers all of the things that need to be covered, everything else is left up to each state, so all of those other ideas can be covered in state constitutions, so long as they don't violate the Bill of Rights and are democratic.

Education is a state issue and each state has it's own education system. If say, Sweden, becomes a state, they can keep their own education system. Also, the only European country that hates guns is the United Kingdom, and even then the people are still allowed to have bolt-action rifles, shotguns, handguns with barrels longer than 60 cm and antique firearms. Guns are not banned or even close to being as restricted in the rest of Europe, as they are in the United Kingdom. Many European countries have strong gun cultures, large populations of gun owners and gun laws that are in some cases even less strict than the United States (such as the legality of machine guns).

Regardless of whether or not some Europeans like guns is irrelevant to the facts. Europeans also don't respect freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of religion. They also support monarchism, aristocracy and international bureaucracies (the EU). Never mind the fact that many European countries aren't truly "democratic," because they ban political parties that their government doesn't like; usually communists, fascists and nationalists.

Also, there is nothing that requires that there only be two political parties in the United States. In fact, at the federal level there are seven parties capable of technically winning a presidential election. In addition, several states have multiple active parties. Countries that become US states can keep all of their own political parties and political interest groups.

 

Awefully polar of you ... this group LOVES guns ... that group HATES guns.... The black and white thinking on your part is rather alarming.

 

The only lacking in freedom of speech in the UK is their are discrimination laws in place. Political parties that traditionally have been responsible for taking freedoms away from the populace are the ones that are banned. I personally prefer to live in a country where the parties have to follow on certain rules and laws to prevent them damaging the freedoms already in place for the people.

The UK is certainly has religious freedom, there is great diversity of faiths that are recognised and celebrated. There is also a lot more tolerance as by law companies and individuals cannot discriminate people based on religion, race, sexuality, level of ability, age, gender, sex, marital status, pregnancy and maternity - including the potential for pregnancy.

I certainly would fight against any proposition to join an institution that would replace those protected characteristics with a freedom of speech that allows people to discriminate against my faith, disability, sexuality and sex.

I am also pleased to have a monarchy, a family which brings incredible amounts of trade from tourism and external sources.

I understand that many of the citizens of the United States are moderate people - there are plenty enough of them on the boards that are a pleasure to read and interact with - yet still I cannot help but see from errant fringes that America is a land of extremes, the most we see from an external view is excess in one form or another and I would not have a part in that.

The UK is not perfect, but enforcing rules of a different continent with different cultural development onto our land simply will not work, why would it? Culture evolves just like language and law - it has no place being copied and pasted onto another land.

 

Lies and classic gun toting propaganda.

The only persons I know who have guns are hunters living in the country and they are a minority. In France handguns are only seen in the hands of law enforcement officers and automatic weapons are reserved for the military. Most criminals don't even use guns unless they have connections. It is a very serious offence to be carrying a gun of any type.

Are you for real? I'm afraid you don't know anything about European political parties. Neo-Nazi groups and Nazi symbols are banned in many European countries for obvious reasons (watch this if you can't imagine why) but far right parties are not banned, in fact they are getting stronger all the time because of the economic crisis.

A word of advice don't ever tell a Frenchman he supports monarchy because you will be in trouble.

As far as freedom of speech and the rest I don't mean to hurt your feelings but these concepts were not invented in the US. We could probably go back to Ancient Greeks...

I don't know if you're trying to make Americans look bad but to say that Europeans don't respect freedom of speech is deeply offensive (among other things but I won't elaborate).

In that light all I can say is that your posts reek of prejudice.

Let me remind you that racism is just another word for ignorance.

 

Please link me to these polls and their source that prove that we love guns. New York City has a very tough gun law. It is virtually impossible for the average citizen to legally buy a hand gun or get a carry license. Assault weapons are banned even more strictly than the New York State law which is strict. Unfortunately there are states that are not so strict. I repeat I know no one that has a hand gun unless they are a police office, armed security guard with a license to carry for work purposes only. I know no one who has an assault weapon or desires to have one. Hunters may have rifles under certain restriction. You also need a licence to hunt.

I have lived in the following states Kentucky, Ohio, Arizona, California, Alaska, New York and New Jersey. I have met thousands of people face to face in my long life time. I do not recall ever having anyone insist that they had to have a gun to walk around with on a daily and hourly basis. The NRA makes it sound as if we are a gun toting, quick on the trigger country and we are not.

As for being a right-wing country we are not nor have wee ever been. It is my impression that Obama, a Democrat, won the last presidential eletction. Neither did I say we are a left-wing nation. I said that most of us fall in between. All we want is a home for ourselves and our families, food on the table and some financial security for ourselves and our children. Shall we discuss who got us to the financial situation we are now in? It was NOT Obama. Which does not mean that I agree with everything he has done.

I repeat myself, we have enough problems of our own without taking on the problems of other countries. We tend to do that anyway and look what it gets us a lot of people who do not like us. If the people of the United Kingdom are happy with a devolved government (learned that from a British friend) let them stay happy. They have freedom, lots of freedom. If they are happy having a monarch more power to them. Why should they give up such an excellent tourist draw? They would be crazy to do that. How many get all twitter and discombobulated at the idea of meeting some one of the nobility much less the Royal Family?

We are a young country. Europeans have histories that date back thousands of years and they have worked out what is best for them. India is an ancient country that has struggled and achieved a lot. Why in the world would it want to give up what it has fought so hard to obtain?

We have no right to tell other people what they should do. I listened to many radio talk shows where the Right screamed and I mean screamed about the Left. Then to be fair I listened to the Left scream about the Right. They are loud and we all know the squeaking wheel gets the oil.

I stand up for the right of the individual to make his or her own decsions, to suceed or fail on their own merits, to eat what they wish, drink whatever they wish and obey the traffic laws which are just good common sense.

It is worthy of AD to be so vehement about freedom but freedom means making your choices, deciding what is right for you. I like my country, The United States of American but I disagree with the government about half the time.

Why in this world would other nations wish to become part of our nation? So they can have what? Starbucks, MacDonald s? They already have those. Bad movies and bad TV shows? They get those already. A watered down educational system? A lousy economy? They have that too. Freedom? Most European countries have freedom, people fought and died to achieve those freedoms. If the country is a dictatorship the dictator is certainly not going to jump up and say "Hooray, lets join the USA and get freedom."

Sorry once I got started I just couldn't stop. I hope I caught all the mis-typings.

 

Nakia, you don’t get to make up random things about how “America hates guns and freedom,” guns are one of the most important aspects of our culture; always have been, always will be. Since you asked, however, here’s a source for you. We have always fought for and promoted gun rights both in the United States and abroad, you have no right to attack America and our allies for supporting freedom.

You obviously don’t know very many people, since you like to pretend guns don’t exist. Virtually everyone here owns several guns and many people carry guns on them. Sure, there are a lot of people who use guns for self-defense, target shooting and hunting, but the vast majority of Americans firmly believe that guns and the Second Amendment are meant to protect the people from a tyrannical government.

Also, there’s no such thing as an “assault weapon,” now you’re just making **** up. That’s an imaginary term that bigots invented in order to attack Americans. If you do your research, you’ll find that the term was actually invented by the fascist gun control lobby in the 1980s, because they realized that they would never succeed in banning handguns, so they had to find a new scapegoat; imaginary guns. So what are these imaginary “assault weapons” of which you speak? So-called “assault weapons” are the exact same as normal guns, but they “look scary.” Quite literally, the only difference between a normal gun and an assault weapon is whether or not the gun has a pistol grip, telescoping stock or other cosmetic features. You’re using imaginary terms to attack imaginary guns.

That doesn’t change the fact that America is a right-wing country. Not to mention the fact that there are twice as many conservatives as liberals in the United States. Liberals and leftists make up less than 20% of the population. The United States spent the better part of the last century fighting against the left.

Nobody is saying that other countries can’t keep their unique history and culture. Obama certainly hasn’t helped get us out of the financial crisis, and don’t pretend the leftists aren’t to blame. Tell me more about how Bill Clinton’s incentivizing banks to give loans to people who couldn’t pay them back helped prevent the financial crisis? Tell me more about how Bill Clinton’s repealing of the Glass-Steagall Act, which separated investment banking from personal banking, saved the banking industry? Tell me more about how Democrats supported Bush’s deficit spending and war-mongering? Tell me more about how Obama had both chambers of Congress and refused to do anything for two years? Tell me more about how Obama is doing such a great job at working alongside Republicans to fix our country? Both parties are to blame and we, the people, are the blame for not standing up to our politicians; and for wanting everything handed to us on a silver platter without having to work for it.

America has an obligation to promote the ideas of freedom, gun ownership, republicanism and democracy. If other people love freedom, then they should be eager to join us and we can work together towards the common goal of ensuring freedom for the human race and the continued existence of our species. The age of romantic nationalism has ended, your blind nationalistic fervor is a thing of the past, we live in a globalized age and we all need to work together to build a future of freedom and prosperity.