USA-France tensions

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I agree with Aldeth. In my experience, most Americans don't give a lot of thought to France or the French people.

 

I personally don't know any French but I have some 50+ relatives that live in Ireland, and most of them, including just about all of them that I know beyond their name and address, agree that the French are "Arrogant, snobish sons of a ******* that think far too highly of themselves".

 

Yeah, but just because the Irish feel that way doesn't mean Americans do.

Yes, we had the "Freedom Fries" and "Freedom Toast" and even "Freedom Kissing", but that was all marketing, poking fun, or in some cases just stated for a laugh. Very few people took it seriously. Like I said, most Americans didn't like the fact that France opposed the UN vote to use force in Iraq because we honestly believed Iraq posed a serious threat at that time. Since the facts have come out hardly anyone believes that any more.

Look, of the dozens, if not hundreds of people I know quite well, I can say not one of them would characterize their feelings towards the French as hatred, or even dislike. If I had to use a word to describe it, it would be apathy. We just don't care. Most days go by and the French don't even cross our minds...

 

Actually, that's what got me started on this topic!
You see, this has been presented in France (at least on television and other media) as the proof of an agressive anti-french spirit in the USA.
Now Aldeth, I assume from your post that this is far from being the case. This leads me to one conclusion: sadly, the media in this country (France) are even more manipuliting than I actually thought...

Anyway, I believe that through international communication, like the one we are having right now, we will eventually figure out what is really going on!

 

M'lady, you've illustrated beautifully the exact reason why I like SP so much.

ps - Welcome to the boards.

 

Death Rabbit; I am charmed!

 

I've a feeling that a large part of this debate about perceptions comes down to a regional thing. Without getting too personal, I grew up in the same area as Spellbound, but spent most of my adult life in Texas. They are two very different places and general perceptions tend to be very different as a result. Where I live now is a huge Bush "stronghold." When the war in Iraq began, and the French refused to jump through hoops for Shrub, there was resentment towards the French among Bush supporters here. Without a doubt, I heard some pretty strong words from some of the good-old-boys here. Others in the South, say Florida, (and who would be governor there?) may experience the same kind of general perception that the French are not liked by all Americans.

But they don't represent America in general. My feeling is that in most parts of the country the French are admired for many things, and not liked for others, which would make them no different than any other European country in this regard. So I agree with Jack Funk that a lot of Americans probably don't really have an opinion on the French in regards to the current political situation.

More regional things: Growing up in the Northeast also, I did have a major in high school, which was business. So I did the reverse of Spelly with Literature as a major and history as a minor in college, forsaking anything that had to do with business. My point is again, there are regional differences in education as well. As a subject, history is pretty much ignored here where I am. In colleges in this area there are only two required history classes in most programs (usually two semesters of American history, but students can do Texas history instead). In regards to this topic such a program does not give college students a very large world-view of things.

I think this is partly intentional. IMO, regional institutions tend to be chauvinistic in their approach, and keeping the systems regionally focused is a part of the self-serving nature of how these institutions operate. We could get into a larger debate about the subtleties and what is implied in all this, but that would be way off topic.

 

This is completly off topic, but I knew it. Two Texans which are so untexan aren't really Texan. Ha. Sorry mates, anyone can become American, but you have to be born Texan to become Texan. It's a Texican thing afterall.

Well, no. That would mean gathering all important facts and process them all. Human wasn't made for this, impossible task.

Well, my personal perception of the French bashing was stark. I didn't take it from European media, but from American media gathered through TV and internet. I fancy myself to understand English and to understand what they are saying and writing. Yet the strong relation to war, reasons for war, reasons for countries not playing cheer-leader and comments about the French can't be underestimated I think. I remember many CNN discussions with answers like "the English are our blood, the French are French", answered to the question why some won't join and others join. (Was some federal administration guy, don't ask me about the name). Dodging questions is an art. Yet, still all comments seemed to me linked to a ferile ground.

I can say the same about my country. In international questions we always have some dislike patterns which we fall automaticly on, and the origin of those patterns and the consequences of these patterns for our relationship with our neighbours, particularly the one to the north, and the EU are heavily discussed right now here. I have the strong feeling that there are similar patterns at work and particularly were at work a year ago.

Three questions: South or north ? Dislike for the French, love for the neighbour island ? Given there would be a French towel and a German towel, which would they steal ?

 

Iago, I was trying to simply illustrate the proven fact that problems are only solved through communication.

 

Really? Shrub was NOT born in Texas, but in CT. Of course, you may have been referring to him in your post. But then everyone, including those in Texas, thinks of him as Texan.

Edit: At the risk of being a little bit sarcastic, since it is frowned upon by some, but I can't resist speaking plainly:

Consider that repayment for how the French helped us aquire our freedom from the "Great Island." Without their help we may still be English today.

There is a statue called "Liberty" in New York Harbor, which was sent to us by which country? Hint: it was not the one that sent cannonballs across New York Harbor at us during 1776.

[ March 23, 2004, 22:51: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]

 

Fantastic points, Chandos. I had forgotten about that.

 

1) Closer to the eastern middle than south or north, around the borders going slightly south as far as Dublin.

2) Well until I started coming to SP I was under the impression from what I heard, that the French aren't particulary fond or happy about anything outside France and that they were Irish bashers America bashers etc, but now I'm not so certain what to think.

3) Is this a serious question?

Lady Luthien: I am sorry if I have been giving you the impression that I hate/dislike France, I try not to listen to hype and other peoples opinions in things that I have no expirience with myself without a good case behind it, and since I don't know any French like I said, I don't have an opinon on them as people.