1. SPS Accounts:
    Do you find yourself coming back time after time? Do you appreciate the ongoing hard work to keep this community focused and successful in its mission? Please consider supporting us by upgrading to an SPS Account. Besides the warm and fuzzy feeling that comes from supporting a good cause, you'll also get a significant number of ever-expanding perks and benefits on the site and the forums. Click here to find out more.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
You are currently viewing Boards o' Magick as a guest, but you can register an account here. Registration is fast, easy and free. Once registered you will have access to search the forums, create and respond to threads, PM other members, upload screenshots and access many other features unavailable to guests.

BoM cultivates a friendly and welcoming atmosphere. We have been aiming for quality over quantity with our forums from their inception, and believe that this distinction is truly tangible and valued by our members. We'd love to have you join us today!

(If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. If you've forgotten your username or password, click here.)

USA-France tensions

Discussion in 'Alley of Dangerous Angles' started by Lady Luthien, Mar 21, 2004.

  1. Jack Funk Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2001
    Messages:
    1,778
    Likes Received:
    25
    I agree with Aldeth. In my experience, most Americans don't give a lot of thought to France or the French people.
     
  2. casey Gems: 15/31
    Latest gem: Waterstar


    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    0
    I personally don't know any French but I have some 50+ relatives that live in Ireland, and most of them, including just about all of them that I know beyond their name and address, agree that the French are "Arrogant, snobish sons of a ******* that think far too highly of themselves".
     
  3. Aldeth the Foppish Idiot

    Aldeth the Foppish Idiot Armed with My Mallet O' Thinking Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2003
    Messages:
    12,434
    Media:
    46
    Likes Received:
    250
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah, but just because the Irish feel that way doesn't mean Americans do.

    Yes, we had the "Freedom Fries" and "Freedom Toast" and even "Freedom Kissing", but that was all marketing, poking fun, or in some cases just stated for a laugh. Very few people took it seriously. Like I said, most Americans didn't like the fact that France opposed the UN vote to use force in Iraq because we honestly believed Iraq posed a serious threat at that time. Since the facts have come out hardly anyone believes that any more.

    Look, of the dozens, if not hundreds of people I know quite well, I can say not one of them would characterize their feelings towards the French as hatred, or even dislike. If I had to use a word to describe it, it would be apathy. We just don't care. Most days go by and the French don't even cross our minds...
     
  4. Lady Luthien Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, that's what got me started on this topic!
    You see, this has been presented in France (at least on television and other media) as the proof of an agressive anti-french spirit in the USA.
    Now Aldeth, I assume from your post that this is far from being the case. This leads me to one conclusion: sadly, the media in this country (France) are even more manipuliting than I actually thought...

    Anyway, I believe that through international communication, like the one we are having right now, we will eventually figure out what is really going on!
     
  5. Death Rabbit

    Death Rabbit Straight, no chaser Adored Veteran Torment: Tides of Numenera SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    6,103
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    241
    Gender:
    Male
    M'lady, you've illustrated beautifully the exact reason why I like SP so much. ;)

    ps - Welcome to the boards. :wave:
     
  6. Lady Luthien Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    0
    :o Death Rabbit; I am charmed!
     
  7. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    I've a feeling that a large part of this debate about perceptions comes down to a regional thing. Without getting too personal, I grew up in the same area as Spellbound, but spent most of my adult life in Texas. They are two very different places and general perceptions tend to be very different as a result. Where I live now is a huge Bush "stronghold." When the war in Iraq began, and the French refused to jump through hoops for Shrub, there was resentment towards the French among Bush supporters here. Without a doubt, I heard some pretty strong words from some of the good-old-boys here. Others in the South, say Florida, (and who would be governor there?) may experience the same kind of general perception that the French are not liked by all Americans.

    But they don't represent America in general. My feeling is that in most parts of the country the French are admired for many things, and not liked for others, which would make them no different than any other European country in this regard. So I agree with Jack Funk that a lot of Americans probably don't really have an opinion on the French in regards to the current political situation.

    More regional things: Growing up in the Northeast also, I did have a major in high school, which was business. So I did the reverse of Spelly with Literature as a major and history as a minor in college, forsaking anything that had to do with business. My point is again, there are regional differences in education as well. As a subject, history is pretty much ignored here where I am. In colleges in this area there are only two required history classes in most programs (usually two semesters of American history, but students can do Texas history instead). In regards to this topic such a program does not give college students a very large world-view of things.

    I think this is partly intentional. IMO, regional institutions tend to be chauvinistic in their approach, and keeping the systems regionally focused is a part of the self-serving nature of how these institutions operate. We could get into a larger debate about the subtleties and what is implied in all this, but that would be way off topic.
     
  8. Iago Gems: 24/31
    Latest gem: Water Opal


    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2003
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is completly off topic, but I knew it. Two Texans which are so untexan aren't really Texan. Ha. Sorry mates, anyone can become American, but you have to be born Texan to become Texan. It's a Texican thing afterall.

    Well, no. That would mean gathering all important facts and process them all. Human wasn't made for this, impossible task.

    Well, my personal perception of the French bashing was stark. I didn't take it from European media, but from American media gathered through TV and internet. I fancy myself to understand English and to understand what they are saying and writing. Yet the strong relation to war, reasons for war, reasons for countries not playing cheer-leader and comments about the French can't be underestimated I think. I remember many CNN discussions with answers like "the English are our blood, the French are French", answered to the question why some won't join and others join. (Was some federal administration guy, don't ask me about the name). Dodging questions is an art. Yet, still all comments seemed to me linked to a ferile ground.

    I can say the same about my country. In international questions we always have some dislike patterns which we fall automaticly on, and the origin of those patterns and the consequences of these patterns for our relationship with our neighbours, particularly the one to the north, and the EU are heavily discussed right now here. I have the strong feeling that there are similar patterns at work and particularly were at work a year ago.

    Three questions: South or north ? Dislike for the French, love for the neighbour island ? Given there would be a French towel and a German towel, which would they steal ?
     
  9. Lady Luthien Gems: 6/31
    Latest gem: Jasper


    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    151
    Likes Received:
    0
    Iago, I was trying to simply illustrate the proven fact that problems are only solved through communication.
     
  10. Chandos the Red

    Chandos the Red This Wheel's on Fire

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2003
    Messages:
    8,252
    Media:
    82
    Likes Received:
    238
    Gender:
    Male
    Really? Shrub was NOT born in Texas, but in CT. Of course, you may have been referring to him in your post. But then everyone, including those in Texas, thinks of him as Texan.

    Edit: At the risk of being a little bit sarcastic, since it is frowned upon by some, but I can't resist speaking plainly:


    Consider that repayment for how the French helped us aquire our freedom from the "Great Island." Without their help we may still be English today.

    There is a statue called "Liberty" in New York Harbor, which was sent to us by which country? Hint: it was not the one that sent cannonballs across New York Harbor at us during 1776.

    [ March 23, 2004, 22:51: Message edited by: Chandos the Red ]
     
  11. Harbourboy

    Harbourboy Take thy form from off my door! Veteran Pillars of Eternity SP Immortalizer (for helping immortalize Sorcerer's Place in the game!)

    Joined:
    May 29, 2003
    Messages:
    13,354
    Likes Received:
    99
    Fantastic points, Chandos. I had forgotten about that.
     
  12. casey Gems: 15/31
    Latest gem: Waterstar


    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    711
    Likes Received:
    0
    1) Closer to the eastern middle than south or north, around the borders going slightly south as far as Dublin.

    2) Well until I started coming to SP I was under the impression from what I heard, that the French aren't particulary fond or happy about anything outside France and that they were Irish bashers America bashers etc, but now I'm not so certain what to think.

    3) Is this a serious question?

    Lady Luthien: I am sorry if I have been giving you the impression that I hate/dislike France, I try not to listen to hype and other peoples opinions in things that I have no expirience with myself without a good case behind it, and since I don't know any French like I said, I don't have an opinon on them as people.
     
Sorcerer's Place is a project run entirely by fans and for fans. Maintaining Sorcerer's Place and a stable environment for all our hosted sites requires a substantial amount of our time and funds on a regular basis, so please consider supporting us to keep the site up & running smoothly. Thank you!

Sorcerers.net is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to products on amazon.com, amazon.ca and amazon.co.uk. Amazon and the Amazon logo are trademarks of Amazon.com, Inc. or its affiliates.