Washington Post not unbiased either -- Hungary media law

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you really don't wanna drink a beer? you and me

 

Maybe, just maybe, if we're really lucky, we'll get to see Baro and Rags re-enact Two Girls One Cup (except for the obvious part that Rags is a guy).

 

And you would tell me what? That Orbán is wise and just, that when he farts it smells like roses, and that when pukes a rainbow ...? Nah, no thanks.

 

Splunge,
you just introduced me to new lows of internet non-culture. The sites offering what you mentioned sent my malware alarms into a frenzy. I probably need to disinfect my computer now, too. You shouldn't always post what comes straight to your mind. There are things I don't want to know.

 

I think I really need to apologize for two things:

1. My previous post. Totally disrespectful to Ragusa and Baronious. It was a waaay over the top tongue-in-cheek "joke" directed at Baronious's previous post. No excuse, though.
2. dmc, for my intentionally ignoring his post immediately preceding this one (i.e. staying on topic). For an explanation as to why I did so, see #1 above.

 

Then let's take someone else, what about Werner Langen, Chairman of the German delegation in the European People's Party He said that the current anti-Orbán campaign was started by the losers of the Hungarian elections of 2010. With Bernd Posselt (also Member of the European Parliament), they also said that it's about a transparent and destructive game of European Socalists and Communists.
The full article can be read here.

Some quotes:

Yes, to discredit Hungary in Europe...

Yes, to wait and see how the law's application will be in the practice...

These words are not from the mouth of a Hungarian Orbán fan, or from the mouth of Baronius, or from the mouth of the Hungarian government. Everyone is free to disagree with them, but cynically saying that "Baronius thinks there is a conspiracy!" just discredits the individual who says it. In a certain meaning, it's conspiracy (or depending on the definition, we can say it's not, it doesn't change on the reality), because the left parties in Europe all feel endangered.

So they try with dirty tools, or at least support the dirty (practically traitor) attitude of Hungarian socialists.

As Orbán said, he is the nightmare example for European left parties: winning in Hungary with 2/3. The left is generally in a bad position in Europe now already (not because of Orbán, before someone would twist this statement). And Orbán's success is their worst nightmare. So they support the Hungarian socialists (who, by talking against Hungary internationally now, basically realize a treason).

It is bullsh** to say that those politicians who questioned the democracy of Hungary do not attack the Hungarian nation. Orbán's government is a democratically elected group, chosen by THE PEOPLE TO REPRESENT THEM. Throwing mud such as "totalitarian", "Lukasenka", "antidemocratic" etc. is an insult to the whole Hungarian nation, no matter that it's addressed to the government.

So you can laugh on the "conspiracy" approach, but it's a fact European socialists feel very bad, and they are not afraid of dirty methods (such as spreading hysteria and lies about the Hungarian media law) to attempt to discredit the right-centre Hungarian government.

 

So anyone who supports Orbán can only be a "buddy", "fan" and similar (which words all imply there is a positive bias), but those who attack/criticize him or his laws necessarily can't be biased, conspiring, malicious, envious, eh? This latter group strictly bases their opinion on facts, law, etc. while those who support Orbán's views necessarily do not, eh?

What kind of double standard do you apply again? Shameful, Taluntain.

I tried to find it in English, but since I couldn't, I quoted it in German. I think most of the people here are educated enough (usually having a university or college degree as well) and have the basic mental ability to do their own research if they're interested to understand something. I didn't intend to translate the whole article from German to English (as it's much energy), but I also didn't intend not to quote it just because the board's primary language is English. As I said, I tried to find it in English, but couldn't, so posted it in German. If you want to exile small snippets (e.g. quotes, so not the post's main structure) in foreign languages when the source isn't available in English, it will greatly decrease the quality of the forums (and would reflect English/American chauvinism, which -- I'm sure -- is not your goal). We're all educated people here, so don't try to oppress my posting by trying to tell me that I can't post small foreign language snippets when their translation is not available. In other words, the "majority of the people posting here" who don't understand German are clever enough to open google translate or ask someone who knows German -- if they're interested in understanding the short snippets. It's not that my entire post or any of its paragraphs are primarily in a foreign language or anything like that. Thank you.

 

If you're not going to take the time to either find an English article or translate it yourself, expect people to totally ignore the content of it.

 

Speak in your own name only, please. Believe me, there are people who have a higher intellectual level than children from kindergarten. Some people have a higher intellectual need than just read things exclusively in English (just because they mostly understand English) and then post their "clever" opinion without understanding the topic more seriously. You know, they are called educated people who speak foreign languages, and even when they don't, they take the time to understand deeply what they read. Not just to increase their post count. Nonetheless, obviously there can be readers who just skip those foreign language parts of my post because they're not that much interested or have no time -- it's no problem, because those quotes are not needed to understand my point, they are only helper parts of my post.

So, Cap'n CJ, I suggest you just talk in your own name. Not everyone is so lazy as yourself. Sure, there are people who ignore it, but also there may be who don't. I put those foreign language snippets to my post whenever I feel them appropriate. My posts are not optimized to the forum members who follow the principle "I quick-read it, and tell my clever opinion; next topic please... wow my post count increases exceptionally fast today!".

I know not only one person from SP forum (and none of them are BWL members), by the way, who are serious, intelligent people enough to analyse my post more deeply (including foreign language snippets if needed) before forming any self-confident opinion. In the past, I had great discussions with them, also in email. Some of them are passive readers, partly because of free time limitations, and I do know they are intelligent enough to think seriously before forming an opinion. If they cannot do their research, they rather stay silent. Freedom of speech enables "freedom to talk stupidity", but they do not live with this right, fortunately.

It would be time to get down from your high horse. You have no way to know who would be "so interested" in my quotes and who wouldn't be. And even if you know it, it is still shameful trying to tell me that I shouldn't put such minor snippets into post because "noone will translate them". I'll clarify the reason later.

Weren't you the one who (also) agreed with those who said that Orbán's majority seems to be used against the rights of minority etc.? I.e. that majority shouldn't be abused against the minority? Well, *here*, apparently, I'm minority with my viewpoint, and your style repeatedly reflects the approach "hey, the majority [in fact you usually use "everyone"] of people won't read/care/accept your arguments here"!. Just because the majority *here* seems to disagree with me (even though I'm not convinced about that, I would just say "the loud majority of some active AoDA posters", but nevermind), so just because the majority *here* seems to disagree with me, does that make the majority opinion so superior? And then the cheap attempts by you and this Cap'n CJ to tell me that I shouldn't post foreign language snippets because *everyone* will "ignore" them here?! OK, let's assume you are right and only 1 reader cares to translate them. Then it was still worth it. (In fact, it is worth to post them in either way, as explained before -- they are not mandatory for understanding my post -- but let's disregard that now). So even if one person cares to translate them, i.e. minority, then that is still not "noone", eh? But in any case, it's a cheap attempt to prevent a possibly good -- but foreign language -- point from appearing in my posts.

To me, it looks like some of you here (including Taluntain) are on a high horse because the majority *here* seems to share a same view (against me). This reminds me to the "horde spirit", you know when many creatures are together, they feel the strength and they feel their opinion is right BECAUSE there is many of them in the "horde". They feel some sort of right to oppress anything that is against them. Otherwise, why you would come with this cheap and worthless talk "don't post non-English snippets because everyone will ignore them"?! Those who ignore it are not harmed; those who are potentially interested can read them. There is nothing wrong with these short, small snippets in my post, yet you are trying to oppress even them, because you are so damn sure noone will care of them.

! ! !
Time to get down from the high horse and stop applying double standards! If you really believe that majority shouldn't oppress minority, then you should rather *support* the presence of any (short) snippets in any of my posts, instead of trying to *tell me* how it doesn't make sense that I post some small foreign-language snippets.

If you really respect that the majority shouldn't oppress minority, you would instead *try to give more space* to the -- apparently and here -- minority opinion of myself here, instead of cheap attempts to tell me that "everyone" will ignore such parts of my posts.

And if you really respect that the majority opinion shouldn't oppress the minority opinion, you would slowly start omitting the "noone cares", "everyone here", "nobody except you" type of elements from your posts. Your apparent majority support for your views doesn't give you privileges to be a fortune teller or superclever about the value of minority opinions.

All this reminds me to a saying in Hungarian (not sure how it's present in English): He preaches water and drinks wine.

Guys, guys, when it's about Orbán's laws and things you disagree here, you seem to be the champions of unbiased and objective views who protect so much the minority against "Orbán's majority", but when it's about acknowledging that someone shares a different viewpoint in AoDA than your "majority" here, you are no better than what Orbán is (falsely) accused of: you are no better with your forum "democracy" than the butlers of Lukasenka or Chavez.

If you truly lived according to what you're saying here about democracy and protecting minority, then you would try to give MORE space to my opinion, instead of using the "hey, everyone disagrees with you here" type of stupid talk.

(Obviously, the above twoparagraph doesn't apply to those who respect -- but possibly disagree with -- my viewpoint.)

 

Nu får du skärpa dig Baronius, det är väl klart att ingen som inte talar tyska ska förstå länkar och artiklar på sagda språk. Eller ska förväntas översätta de genom diverse verktyg. Det är upp till den som länkar något att stå för översättningen. Vare sig du tycker om det eller inte är engelska lingua franca på internet och vill man göra sig förstådd över nationsgränser är det språket man får använda. Hur många tror du det är som förstår vad jag skriver här?

Use google translate if you want to find out what I wrote to you here Barry.

 

When a debate comes down to petty insults, it's run it's course. Part of me is entirely unsuprised you've sunk so low, but then the same part of me also questions if you actually sank atall or if it's your default.

A thought occurs, however. You're defending a media law that would let the majority censor the minority. However, here on the BoM, you're complaining that the majority is disagreeing with you, the minority?

Oh, and a quick hint: This forum isn't a democracy.

Edit: Oh, and while i'm here, you're making me so hard that i'm in danger of breaking my wrist.

 

joacqin: your post is twisting the issue; my foreign language snippets were not totally necessary for understanding the main point of my post, they were useful additions, for example. On the other hand, your entire post is in a foreign language.

Probably not many people, but those who really wanted to understand it could solve it. It is called effort. Intelligent, educated people -- before forming an opinion in any topic -- first try to get familiar with the topic. If that needs getting translations, then they do. If someone does not want to do that effort, it is fine too. It doesn't mean that the snippets have no right to be there.

Moreover, the point is not that English should be widely if I want myself to be understood. It is not the point, it is irrelevant, because those snippets were NOT critical parts of my posts.

Finally, the problem is not about whether those snippets in my post can be understood or not; the most shameful from Taluntain's and this Cap'n CJ was that they tried to tell I should not post even such minor snippets because "everyone will ignore them". Something which they can't know, and even if the majority ignores them, there may still be people who are interested in my point and may ask for further clarification or find a translation. The fact Taluntain and this Cap'n CJ feel confident enough to decide what ALL OTHERS will think or do about MY POST reflects they are on a high horse and think too much of themselves. They are very naive, actually, e.g. they eat the complete socialist propaganda broadcast by the international media about the new Hungarian media law.

It isn't, but some guidelines are followed. For example, there is no censoring of opinions in AoDA based on their political views -- at least this is what I believed now, until reading Taluntain's cheap comments about how I can't add even minor snippets in language other than English etc.

Moreover, democracy also has to do with sensitivity regarding the minority. People in this thread who were so "worried" that the 2/3 majority of Orbán will oppress the "minority" somehow do not mind using the same majority-superiority "look, we all disagree with you, your view is worthless here!" what they seem to despise in Orbán's government so much.
Hypocritic conceited people!

You Cap'n CJ and several others are using irony and the "you see? we majority all are against you, this means your view is wrong" type of idiot talk. Because you have nothing else left than irony and sarcasm. That is why I said you are basically cooking yourself in your own soup while Orbán rebuilds Hungary. You're free to think the opposite, you are free to tell your precious "opinion", but in Hungary, noone will really care except the envious socialists and their lackeys & followers. Hungary now belongs to Hungarians.

You've been brainwashed regarding the media law by the "reasonable international criticism", just like several others here. That is why you say "it would let the majority censor the minority". As if you were telling a poem to an audience.
I don't complain the (assumed) "majority" disagrees with me here, I said that it's very cheap to tell me that "noone will translate" my snippets so I "shouldn't have added them", because those who say this have no way to know that, and even if they knew it, they still should support "plurality" (something they miss so much in the new media law, lol).

Don't you feel some incredible self-confidence in your words, making it terribly suspicious:
"You're defending a media law that would let the majority censor the minority."
It would _let_ _the_ _majority_ _censor_ _the_ _minority_, as if it this was the biggest unquestionable truth in the world. You were also brainwashed by the international campaign. I can't, I just CAN'T BELIEVE how people can be THIS naive.

-------

Back to the question of my English snippets: I think those who have problem with them are actually annoyed by the fact that they read something not in English. I would TOTALLY UNDERSTAND THEM if my post was not understandable without those quotes. But since the snippets are only an EXTENSION, a small piece in my post, they are not critical for the understanding. Yet, this disturbs some people...

...some people who got used to that they can read EVERYTHING in English and do not need to move their lazy a**es for the effort to understand something. They just quickly like to read, tell their magnifiscent "clever" opinion, and then move to the next thread to increase their post count.

 

Again with the insults - It seems your tank has run dry Baronius.

It's already pretty clear that there's plenty of blood and fragments of skull on this particular wall from the endless stream of people banging their heads againt it trying to get you to accept any criticism atall, and i've no desire to waste any more of my time on it.

I'd say let's agree to disagree, but no doubt you're going to take this post as "AHA! I AM RIGHT! SEE HOW THEY BACK DOWN BEFORE THE FOUNTAIN OF MY KNOWLEDGE!"

At the end of the day, though, that's not what it is. The law in question is so cearly open to abuse, and so clearly going to be abused, I can't believe someone that knows so many big long words can't see that. Instead you're far too busy bashing us and defending your beloved country to actually see what's going on. I respect your adoration for your country, but you can't be blind to it's faults, and this is quickly going to become one of them.

All this thread proves is that, yes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't stop him pissing in it.

 

FOUNTAIN OF KNOWLEDGE?

You don't do him justice. It is clearly a MIGHTY FIRE HOSE OF BRILLIANCE! The metaphorical implications are also more to the point than the image of a mere fountain.

 

Where are your so-clever arguments and objective fact-lists now, amateurs? (Again, this doesn't apply to everyone who disagreed with me, just to Ragusa & his conceited lackeys, for example)
Where is that so-carefully-objective STRICTLY FACTUAL criticism? E.g. Ragusa even couldn't react to most of the points of my post where I tore apart many accusations regarding the media law. He COULDN'T SAY ANYTHING to the sad fact that he was a total amateur when HE BELIEVED THE ICE-T SONG WAS INVESTIGATED per the ***new media law*** "The first victim" of the new media law, eh? (For the information of those who don't know the truth, and believed the lies that misled Ragusa too: in the reality, the ICE-T SONG WAS INVESTIGATED per the OLD VERSION of the media law )

Only irony is left I see... Something stinks here. The truth hurts, eh? The only way Ragusa and his lackeys can emphasize that they are "right" is telling compliments about each other's posts Like a horde (Yeah, I didn't want to use a less tactful wording, which includes the word "lick".)