Washington Post not unbiased either -- Hungary media law

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Baronius - if I may, just a question. Are you trying to convince us to agree with you? A simple yes or no, please.

 

Depends who is "us". If you mean those of you who share rather Ragusa's views than mine, then my answer is: I had such hopes initially, but now, probably most of what I write gets lost on the most bigoted active writers.

Ragusa suggests that you all use the internet to get a perfectly well-informed view on Hungary, so those who haven't started it yet, go and do it*.

If someone else had written it, I would've actually cared to remind the person to the endless conceitedness and idiocy he presents, but in case of Ragusa, it makes no sense.

To tell the truth, I think some people have too much time here, and they think that they can be "clever" in every topic they write to (yes, this last part of the complex sentence was already mentioned a few times beforehand). My words are not directed to these self-candidate topic "hyenas". Hyenas because they prefer considering themselves the ONLY readers/visitors of this thread (and many other threads) who "Baronius tries to convince". Self-centric, conceited view. It is similar to the mob in the street who think they are the only citizens in a country, just because they are loud and their presence can't be not noticed. So I just call them forum hyenas. (Not every poster is like that, but several are, unfortunately.)


*except those who have the minimal intelligence & education level to know some obvious facts; facts I even don't need to mention here about knowing countries and cultures.

 

But then how can he aggregate (simplify) all forum readers to those who share his view? (By saying "convince", he makes an assumption that everyone in the group he means needs to be convinced; that is not so, see below.) Not everyone shares his and/or Ragusa's views, for example. His original line:

Some people don't need to be convinced anymore, because they are already convinced at least about some basic things (e.g. that Orbán is not an antidemocratic leader). About the direction of my text: it has more targets, e.g. google also indexed this topic to a nice position too, or if you write to google "orbán manipulated", the first match is SP. Then there are (non-Hungarian) readers who agree with me, e.g. I got an email some weeks ago, supporting my point and suggesting me not to waste more time on users such as R.

 

He can aggregate the forum to 'us' because the topic you started was in public view to everyone on the forum. Therefore you were addressing 'us' as the populace of SP, your continued repetition of stale arguments leads to the impression you are on a mission to convince the readers that you are correct.

However you appear to have been unable to respond with 'yes' or 'no' to the question. Have you considered politics yourself as a career option?

 

You don't need to analyze it. It was an exceedingly simple question. This is a forum. You are addressing those who post on it. Do you want us to agree with you or not?

Why do I ask? Well, you've made clear your contention that anyone (Hungarian or not) who believes anything negative about Victor Orban has been willingly brainwashed by anti-Orban propaganda, despite how little sense that makes. You reject that anyone other than yourself is capable of any measure of objectivity on any issues related to Hungary because we are not also Hungarian, despite how little sense that makes. You've also made it clear that despite just about every person who has tried to engage you in this topic has insisted that they have no strong feelings about Orban one way or another, you continually level personal attacks, accuse others of lying and spreading further propaganda against him, not being able to read, being hyenas...etc. etc. for 12 pages, despite how little sense that makes. Bottle that charisma and sell it.

It seems the only way someone could possibly, according to your own mental-patient standards, have the intellectual capacity or objectivity to see the truth on this or any matter related to Hungary, they must be both:

a) Hungarian, and
b) named Baronius.

So again - are you trying to get us to agree with you? Really? Or are you just here to rant? Because I'm sure there is a lamp post in your neighborhood that is more interested in a 13th page of this thread than we are. And there's only one person you have to thank for hostility toward further discussing this subject. And it ain't Ragusa.

 

I had an assumption (yes, implicit knowledge), and the latest post of DR shows I was right -- he is jumping into conclusions that reflect his approach is much closer to the approach of Ragusa & co. than to mine.

Nonetheless, in his latest post, Death Rabbit told so many incorrect statements (e.g. which imply that I consider every person brainwashed who disagrees with me -- this is a big nonsense, e.g. see the latest posts between Drew and myself -- I gave him right in a point), and I won't waste more time answering to all these points.

But I did answer that question with a yes or no:

The second sentence is a no, obviously.

Or I could say: my words are for convincing those who are not totally blind/bigoted against Viktor Orbán.

Why did I use a conditional tense? Exactly for the above reason (i.e. that I don't want to convince anyone from those who are bigoted/blind against Hungary's new government). This is a SELECTION. In the light of that, this also makes no sense in this form:

It is like asking: do you like fruits? A yes or no, please.
The set in the questions consists of more subsets. The answerer might love peach and apple, but not pineapple, for example.

By the way, my words are meant for those who want to extend their view and knowledge on Hungary (and generally as well), even if they don't fully agree with me. What I've experienced on most forums is that people love to criticize, they love to think they understand and know everything, so they rather like to give a lesson to the Original Posters of threads. But never to learn from them. Fortunately, there are some readers who are actually interested from learning from what others write. My words are also meant for them.

This is itself a self-contradiction. If apparently noone is interested in the 13th page, how can there be hostility? How can there be posts? No, no, the interests come from the fact that certain people are annoyed. "How Baronius dares to defend a law which is undefendable? How can he defend a "dictator" who restricted so many things in his country? How he dares to write such defense?" From Ragusa's style, especially from early post, this was reflected very well. There are annoyed people, most of them are those forum "hyenas" who think that the forums are their monopoly, and anyone who doesn't want to listen to their "precious criticism" must necessarily be taught a lesson.

So, to sum up, my posts are meant for those who don't throw them immediately to garbage. No, I won't change on anything to try to "convince" the bigoted group. If the bigoted group started to think a bit more openly and with less conceitedness, they could understand my viewpoints much easier.

 

Here's what you don't seem to understand:

When you first started all this nonsense, in both the Economist thread and this one, "those not totally blind/bigoted against Viktor Orbán" was essentially everyone here. As has been stated many, many times in both topics, this issue was on virtually no one's radar until you brought it up and started ranting about it. Specifically, here, I'm referring to "us" - meaning the BoM posters you are addressing. Very few of us had even heard of Orban before you brought him to our attention, let alone formed an opinion of him, good or bad. Rarely are people given the opportunity to persuade such an unbiased audience from word one. It really says something that the manner of your posts has given us all such a negative impression of Orban, since the conduct of his fanatics (you) are almost all the indication we have to go by. I STILL have no impression of Orban either way, even now, since your hysterics prevent me from taking a word you say seriously (or rob me of any interest to do more research myself). He may as well be a cartoon character, given your behavior. The tragedy is, for all I know you're 100% right about everything you've written in his defense. But now I think I speak for a majority here in saying I no longer now - nor will I EVER - give a sh*t. You've achieved the opposite of your stated objective.

But really, let's be honest, it isn't much of a hot-button issue internationally, either. Hungary's presence on the world stage, fair or not, is minimal. You excitedly point out that this thread is the #1 Google position for "orbán manipulated" and draw exactly the wrong conclusion from it. If a modestly-trafficked gaming web site is the world's #1 source for your hard-hitting exposes and defenses of your beloved leader, then chances are the number of people who really give a sh*t about this number in the dozens. Tops.

Because this (and the other) topic long ago stopped being about Orban and started being about you. It has gone from a discussion of a serious (if relatively trivial) issue to pure, jaw-on-the-floor entertainment. The posts continue because the lengths you'll go to to insult, accuse, dismiss, misquote, and/or turn off anyone who even had the smallest chance of being persuaded by your point of view is, frankly, more entertaining than midget wrestling, and every bit as much of a guilty pleasure.

I have nothing against you personally, and I don't plan on wading into this pool-o'-crazy again. But really, Baronius, after all these pages, and getting banned for a month, and on and on, it's probably time to recognize that you're doing your cause (not to mention your reputation here, if that means anything to you) far more harm than good.

 

You're the perfect example of the people who are annoyed, and while you love emphasizing that only the "lamp post" is interested in my words and how Hungary's international presence is "minimal", you seem to care very very much about this thread (regardless the exact target of caring -- you post here, it means it interests you in some way ); so either you're a lamp post, or... I'll let this to everyone's imagination.

First of all, I suggest you quit, before you get too much obsessed (as Ragusa did, and then it took weeks for him to chill). I won't write more, because suggesting personal things to each other, giving advice to each other, is not the topic of this thread. (And you started it now by giving me advice to quit the thread.) So, in analogy to this:

I ask you to tell me advice in PM, Death Rabbit, not in this public thread.

This also reflects you think it really matters whether you care, or not. It doesn't.

It really makes no sense to react to other incorrect and laughable parts of your post. E.g. about your ridiculous interpretation of the google #1 match. All it was supposed to mean that those people who search for "Orbán manipulated" (as even The Economist wrote an answer to the Hungarian channel, so there may be potentially interested google users) will get this BoM topic as a result. It has nothing to do with Hungary's significance or whatever.

Let me remind you that until Post #280, the topic wasn't personal, wasn't about "me" as you say, etc. You started it with asking who I want to convince etc. Until then, there was a talk about Orbán or about what knowledge is needed for any person to correctly judge/understand countries and situations. You start to make it personal again by giving me advice etc. etc. etc.

 

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I consider myself pretty well versed in world politics, and, while I assumed someone was the leader of Hungary, I would not have been able to name Viktor Orban as that person prior to Baronius' posts. I think it's safe to say that I, as well as many others here, did not have a preconceived, subjective opinion (good or bad) of Orban, because I, as well as many others here, did not even know who he was.

Now, in the post-Orban enlightenment phase of my life, I think I know more than I will ever need to know about the guy. This knowledge has left me with an overall feeling of indifference about Orban. I don't live in Hungary. I have never even visited Hungary. I have no plans to do either. (Not because of this thread - it's just that visiting any central or eastern European nation is not particularly high on my bucket list.) The only person I know how lives in Hungary is Baronius, and if he feels happy enough with Orban, that's good enough for me.

That's why I've posted so minimally in this thread. I see no reason to push the issue. If most Hungarians like Orban, then why should the rest of us get so worked up about it? Hungary is not exactly a world power - its actions do not have a ripple effect around the globe. If you don't live there, it doesn't really matter much to you.

 

Baronius - what can I say, you're adorable. I am not now, nor will I EVER, be "obsessed." You're a complete lunatic. Had you been a POLITE lunatic, I would have been defending you against your detractors this whole time. But you've been anything but polite since word one. For a while I thought it was an English-not-being-your-native-tongue issue, but you've now corrected me on that. I only got involved now to see if I would fair any better than the others in getting you to come to your senses a little bit. Hence my simple question which started this off. The chances were small, but I figured it'd be entertaining at a minimum. It was.

When the orderlies come by today with your daily meds, try not to bite them. They probably don't make much money and it's a thankless job.

 

Yes it took me weeks to chill

Baronius, you do recall that it was you who got suspended, lest you immolate yourself? Alas, it apparently did not cool you down (pun!). As for myself, if I had wanted, I could have posted another post every 24h. I didn't. I was too obsessed to post I guess. It was you who posted after ... was it two months, and reanimated what was by then a dead thread? Priceless.

And then, indulge me, and us, did you write 'too obsessed' because you think you have for yourself found the right balance?

 

All this ranting about hungary makes me hungry. I've got a nice meatloaf made with Jack Daniel's BBQ sauce and mashed potatos -- my wife is an awesome cook. The meatloaf is a combination of sausage, onion, beef, turkey and has the right amount of spices ... it practically melts in the mouth ... perhaps I'm just too much obsessed.

 

T2 - would you PM me the recipe? That sounds amazing.

 

T2,
I'd be interested either. Speaking of which, we should revive the cooking thread.

 

Then revive your cooking thread, guys, or I'll have to report you to the moderators because of the latest 2-3 posts.

I wonder if good wine is on your bucket list... I just heard from a friend that Hungary is going to double its wine export to the USA, due to the increasing demand. I've just found it on the web too.

I won't comment too much on this, it nicely summarizes the level of your mental standard (let alone that I wonder if you could direct me to a place where you wrote your country with lower case, 'united states' anywhere).

 

I'm no wine connoisseur, but I don't have to go to Hungary to try Hungarian wine. I'm more of a beer guy, and I don't have to go to the country of origin to sample foreign brews either.

 

You misunderstood me; I didn't mean you should come here to drink Hungarian wine. HU wine is widely available in the USA (and from this year, probably double as much will be available), that is what I tried to express in that post.

Talking of wine is a bit on-topic, because one of the actions of Orbán was to allow home distillers again in Hungary (i.e. everyone can brew brandy at home for non-commerical purposes, without explicit permission -- maybe the terms I use in English are not the suitable ones, in Hungary we call it pálinka -- it's not wine -- and dictionary says these to me: bingo, brandy, firewater, hootch, red-eye, snifter).