Welfare. (huh!) What is it good for? Absolutely...

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It's funny you mention the no arms thing -- right now in Alberta (it may be a Canada -wide campaign, I'm not sure) there's a set of advertisements that talk about how people who are "disabled" can contribute to society -- I put the term in quotes because people so classified tend to not like the label. The campaign shows all sorts of people who are "differently abled" (to use the more politically correct term) engaged in all sorts of jobs, making money and contributing to society.

That said, I'm well aware that there are some people who are so deeply damaged physically that they will always need assistance. I was not referring to that. At the same time, the suddenly abandoned or bereaved may need help for longer than others. But there should still be an onus on these people to provide what they can for themselves, and if they need help, there's no problem in my mind with offering them some aid.

What chaps my hide is the people (and they DO exist, though they may not exist as frequently as the Right says they do) who are capable of working and yet do NOTHING for years on end and constantly have their hands out for government assistance. Those are the people who need to be tracked down and forced to work for their resources.

 

When we talk about welfare are we also referring to individuals who worked in the past, had a serious accident and are unable to work again in their field or at all? If so, than Welfare is paying these people who are unable to perform prior work and is helping them out financially; however, if we are talking about someone who has never worked a day in their life and receives welfare check for doing nothing, than I say we stop that process all together.

I am all for helping someone out who worked and was injured, but I am all for someone abusing a system.

 

The other arguement in favor of these people receiving assistance is that while they were able to work, they were paying into the system that is now helping them out. However, you also hear quite a lot about people on disability who really are not disabled. In other words, they had an injury that would have allowed them to return to work after a period of time, but managed to convince a doctor that they are still in pain and therefore need to stay on disability. That's cheating the system too.

 

I have nothing against giving welfare to those who have hit a rut, and need a temporary helping hand to get back on their feet (eg. natural disasters).

I also think that full time students should be entitled to welfare, so that they can focus on getting educated instead of working three part time jobs to avoid college debt. Invest in students (especially those who are studying high demand skills, such as medicine and engineering), and recoup your losses when they give their skills back to society.

But there is something truly despicable about continually shelling out money to individuals who are able to work, but choose not too. Hence they remain on welfare indefinitely. There is also something truly despicable about stealing my money to pay for individuals who will never be able to contribute to society (terminally ill, chronically ill, etc.)

I love how people support universal welfare (and public healthcare) with the argument "Well, it's not their fault that they sick." Well, it's not my fault either, so why should I have to pay?

 

So that if you ever say get into a traffic accident and get premanent brain damage making you unable to work, you will be taken care of and not left outside to starve/freeze to death.

 

I love how people somehow think you can somehow afford to pay $300 a month for decent insurance on 8 bucks an hour and, you know, eat....let alone make their co-pay when they need to see a doctor. I love it even more when folks try to argue that the working class can somehow afford to pay for medical treatment without insurance. Not everyone is intelligent, lucky, skilled, educated, or otherwise fortunate enough to earn middle class income. Without government funded programs like title 19, working families simply can't afford medical treatment when they are sick. Even with these programs, many Americans still can't afford medical insurance. To make matters worse, Americans with pre-existing conditions can't get insurance at all....and don't qualify for title 19 until their medical costs have dwarfed their income down to the poverty level.

 

If you can't afford private insurance, that's just tough ****, isn't it? How pathetic do you have to be to 'struggle' to survive as a Homo Sapien in the West? Homo sapiens are the most pampered species on this planet, and Westerners are the most pampered subgroup of Homo Sapiens. And yet some individuals 'struggle' to pay to keep themselves healthy.

Tough **** if you can't make it in the real world! I fully support the process of natural selection (or even a eugenics program) weeding their inferior genetic construct out of the gene pool, leaving behind those who actually have the brains and balls to take full advantage of what little they have.

Those in the middle and high class are there for a reason: Their superior genetic construct was able to dominate inferior genetic constructs. Hence they tread on the backs of the unworthy, of those who are being ground to dust due to their inherent lack of worth.

Every day, genetically fit zebras, chimps, elephants and kangaroos break their limbs due some misfortune, and they aren't afforded free health care by us speciest Homo Sapiens. But you want me to shell out money to help organisms which belong to the most pampered species on the planet?

**** that. If those leeches want money, they can resort charity, instead of using the government to strong arm sympathy money off successful Homo Sapiens. Society is truly ****ed up when it weakens itself, and speeds up the degradation of Mother Earth, by helping what is essentially genetic garbage.

Morg:

Anyone with permanent brain damage who can't work should be killed. It's that simple.

But here's an alternative scenario. Assume that a particular individual is at risk of cardiovascular disease due to their high blood pressure, which has been brought about by their lack of exercise and poor diet. Is it fair that YOUR hard earned money should be spent on preventative meds (eg. statins) in order to keep their worthless, lazy fat ass alive?

 

Paris Hilton.

 

Wow - most of the above is so ridiculously over-the-top I'm tempted to believe it's a joke post. One would hope...

And what do we do with all these pathetic sub-species that aren't lucky enough to have been born with the genetic material necessary for them to afford overpriced health insurance? Should we round them up and deport them? Just let them die in the streets? I know: let's give Evolution a little push and lace their 99¢ Wendy's chicken nuggets with rat poison. That'll fix everything. /end snark.

Dude - I'm not happy about the current state of welfare either, nor am I thrilled at the idea that a portion (no matter how tiny) of my "hard-earned money" goes to schlubs who probably don't deserve it. But while this "screw the poor, they deserve it" attitude of yours may make you feel all tough and manly and self-righteous inside, it's obnoxiously unhelpful and doesn't get anyone any closer to forming a serious solution to the problem at hand. The needy of the world won't just simply disappear if we decide their problems aren't worth the attention of we "high-class" folk and change the locks on them.

If you can't approach this issue with little less self-righteousness and a little more realism and empathy, then I'd prefer you didn't approach it at all. There is a difference between an entitled opinion and a feckless diatribe, you know. Since no government on earth would ever enact the mean-spirited economic Darwinism you seem to be advocating - and you appear to be smart enough to realize that - it's difficult to conclude that you're being anything but disingenuous.

 

Why would anyone need temporary aid then? I mean even among students strongest and the most hard working will survive through the education even when forced to work their skin off? So why make exceptions? Shows some serious lack of logic in my opinion.

Also, in my opinion the ideal society is one where everyone has a chance for a happy and fullfilling life, that's the ideal worth striving for. The utopia of extreme social darwinism is a place where no-one cares about anyone and each man is an island fighting their way in a world devoid of any empathy. Not exactly my idea of fun.

I would assume my tax euros have gone for such cases. And no such cases do not exactly fill me with joy. Joacqin summed it up quite well with his bit about "human waste".

 

Looks to me like The Mountain Hare would have done just fine in ancient Sparta (at least the Sparta as envisioned in 300). The kicker is, Hare, that the so-called genetically inferior tend to gang up on the so-called superior and kick their butts.

I wonder at the lack of ANY compassion you display. Are you really that angry? I get angry at the idea of lazy, CAPABLE people sponging off the system, but you seem to hate anyone who is not as fortunate as you. At the risk of sounding like an old fart, I have to say that as time goes on you will likely have experiences that will inspire you to grow up and see the world through more human eyes, instead of the absolutes you like to deal in.

 

reads mountain hares posts
d@mn dude, you make ME look like a liberal

 

Actually, if you aren't middle or upper class, the main reason for this isn't genetic superiority, but rather you lacked the foresight to be born to middle or upper class parents. People in the middle class or higher receive better education than the lower class, receive better healthcare than the lower class when growing up, and because of their monentary advantages go to college at a much higher rate than the lower class. It's a very circular process.

I'm not suggesting that if you are born in the lower class you have no hope and will be stuck there for your whole life - success stories do happen. But these people represent the exceptions who have succeed against a deck that was heavily stacked against them.

Regardless of their perceived "genetic inferiority" there are tons more of them than those of the upper class.

 

They just can't get married - but they can have civil unions - or uncivil, depending....

I agree. They should try the phony world instead.

And here I thought cats were....

Personally, unnatural selection seems more desirable, but it depends on who's doing the selecting. But hey, don't leave those things behind. They may come in handy, even if they are little. And don't leave anything behind in the pool either, including your jeans.

I've given your comments all the attention they deserve, MH. Have a nice day.

 

Wow. This is the best argument for birth control I've ever seen. I thought ideas like this died their final death in 1945.

 

Wow, that's harsh MH.

 

Death:

The following idea isn't my own, but I like it anyway: We round up all the inferior who refuse to stop breeding, and place them in a metallic dome. Eventually, as they hit a critical population number, they will be mashed against the walls of the metallic dome. Then their bodies could be used as fertilizer. At least they would be useful for something.

What you don't seem to understand is that humans are an apex predator. This is what makes disease, poverty, bullying, war, and natural disaster beautiful in a sense. They are necessary to keep Homo Sapiens (especially the less competent) from breeding and spreading their genetic filth to the next generation.

Sadly, Homo Sapiens, a speciest bunch if I ever saw one, love to preserve filth, and subvert nature. We favour a Terry Schiavo over an earthworm, despite the fact that the earthworm contributes more to the biosphere. When Homo Sapiens 'gang up' in an attempt to preserve filth in their own species (instead of killing it off, ala. chimp style), we cause great damage to our own species, to every other species,and the biosphere.

Morg:

Hawhaw. Me's been caught out... not?

I'd willingly give my neighbour a cup of sugar, if I knew I'd get a slice of the cake they were baking.

Likewise, giving temporary support to students/temporarily will pay out in the end, unless they are dead end students/lazy workers who use their 'disability' as an excuse.

There is a place for in altruism in nature. But I've yet to see an echidna which 'enjoys' being parasitized off by a bunch of blood sucking ticks.

LKD:

Hell no. I'd probably be weeded out, given that I've been pussified by modern civilization.

But you wouldn't hear me screaming and whining about how 'unfair' it is. If I've been outcompeted, that's tough **** for me, eh?

[ August 09, 2007, 04:16: Message edited by: The Mountain Hare ]

 

LOL!

Please do continue posting.

 

Thanks AMaster.

I think that the problem here is that most humans believe that they have an inherent 'right to life, comfort and ease of living', merely because they happen to be part of 'Homo Sapiens'. Even if that life is brain-dead, paralyzed and lying drooling in a hospice bed.

What a load of crock! The only inherent right humans have is that shared by all organisms: The right to struggle to survive, prove the worth of your genetic construct, and then propagate your genome.

To say that the most useless scum of society deserve free stuff from Homo Sapiens who are actually competent enough to accumulate wealth to purchase a house, car, and other ****, is just plain absurd. It's worse than theft, it's parasitism at the core, because the giver, and the biosystem as a whole, gets nothing in return.

Once you acknowledge the fact that humans don't have an intrinsic right to life, ease or comfort, then you are forced to come to the conclusion that welfare as we know it is a joke.

 

That's the same point Al Gore has been trying to make....

I don't think civilization has anything to do with you being pussified, nor with any of your ideas. Maybe it's because your genes are still in the pool. Being "pussified" will do that to you.

Well, he is our president....

Ah, so much for the Homo Sapien.... But I completely agree with AMaster - Don't stop posting, MH. You've really been shaking up the "gene pool" around here. It's kinda like waking up the old folks at the home. Some new ideas and a bit of controversy is not a bad thing, IMO.